User Tag List

First 7151617181927 Last

Results 161 to 170 of 320

  1. #161
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The people of the Texas electorate (those affected) have every right to voice their opinions.

    But for those unaffected by Texas law, those living in other states, to sit in judgement of the actions of the Texas legislature while having no understanding of what the people of Texas want is ridiculous.

    If the people of California want to ban pistol grips on rifles because they don't like the way they look... that is their right regardless of my (a citizen of Florida) opinions on the matter.
    We're all affected by it. People brought up in Texas do move to other states occasionally. I'd greatly prefer it if they had decent educations when they come here. And whether conservatives like it or not, this is not a loosely-affiliated collection of nation-states. We're a country, and what happens in a part of the country affects the whole.

  2. #162
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The people of the Texas electorate (those affected) have every right to voice their opinions.

    But for those unaffected by Texas law, those living in other states, to sit in judgement of the actions of the Texas legislature while having no understanding of what the people of Texas want is ridiculous.

    If the people of California want to ban pistol grips on rifles because they don't like the way they look... that is their right regardless of my (a citizen of Florida) opinions on the matter.
    Why do you seem to think that criticism of a decision = "I want to take away your right to voice your opinion?" It's a kind of outrageous victim posturing born out of defensiveness.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #163
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    We're all affected by it. People brought up in Texas do move to other states occasionally. I'd greatly prefer it if they had decent educations when they come here. And whether conservatives like it or not, this is not a loosely-affiliated collection of nation-states. We're a country, and what happens in a part of the country affects the whole.
    You have a chance of being affected by it.

    Some people do move... at which point they can take a role in voting for those who determine the laws in their new state. The fact that people move from time to time doesn't confer on people out of state the right dictate what is right or wrong with the legislative goings on in another state. By that same argument I would have the right to preach to the people of California on the rights and wrongs of their educational choices because my neighbor happens to be from Santa Anna.

    We are a country. We are states united.

    The right of each state to forge its legal structure cannot be overcome by the fact that some of their decisions come into conflict with an outsiders moral compass.

    Most importantly, without any hard data showing a material detriment caused by the TX legislature's educational choices, you really don't have any ground on which to stand to say they are right or wrong.

    You may disagree, but even so, their decisions might be the right ones for them... And if not, the voters can throw the bums out in the next election.

    Either way I'm done with this.

  4. #164
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You have a chance of being affected by it.

    Some people do move... at which point they can take a role in voting for those who determine the laws in their new state. The fact that people move from time to time doesn't confer on people out of state the right dictate what is right or wrong with the legislative goings on in another state. By that same argument I would have the right to preach to the people of California on the rights and wrongs of their educational choices because my neighbor happens to be from Santa Anna.

    We are a country. We are states united.

    The right of each state to forge its legal structure cannot be overcome by the fact that some of their decisions come into conflict with an outsiders moral compass.

    Most importantly, without any hard data showing a material detriment caused by the TX legislature's educational choices, you really don't have any ground on which to stand to say they are right or wrong.

    You may disagree, but even so, their decisions might be the right ones for them... And if not, the voters can throw the bums out in the next election.

    Either way I'm done with this.
    Who is talking about taking away anybody's rights? It seems to me like you're the only one suggesting what people can and cannot do.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #165
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Would you prefer, each state had the right to determine (to a reasonable extent) the educational standards within it's boundaries....

    Or would you prefer that the Federal government took educational standards out of the hands of the states?

    Y'all love to complain about shit like this, but where are your complaints going?

    Are you trying to materially achieve anything, or just voicing your opinions?

    Because it seems to me, that without some material reason to be as vitriolic as many in this thread have been, regarding the choices of conservatives or the TX GOP more specifically, that the only point to this thread is to say, "wow look how dumb Republicans are, lets all jump in and pound on them".

    While there has some discussion of the specifics of the policy, the weight of the thread seems to be more concerned with bashing the GOP than with actually having a two sided discussion.

    And it's posts like this that give me that impression:

    Please. Do you really think they'd give two shits about OBE if it weren't viewed erroneously as some vehicle for the brainwashing of children in librul/godless/nihilist/feminist/communist/bolshevik/whatever values?
    People are always going to care about the governing principles of their kid's education.

    Anyway I'm done with you.

    Shine on you crazy hate machine.

  6. #166
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Would you prefer, each state had the right to determine (to a reasonable extent) the educational standards within it's boundaries....

    Or would you prefer that the Federal government took educational standards out of the hands of the states?

    Y'all love to complain about shit like this, but where are your complaints going?

    Are you trying to materially achieve anything, or just voice your opinions?

    Because it seems to me, that without some material reason to be as vitriolic as many in this thread have been, regarding the choices of conservatives or the TX GOP more specifically, that the only point to this thread is to say, "wow look how dumb Republicans are, lets all jump in and pound on them".

    While there has some discussion of the specifics of the policy, the weight of the thread seems to be more concerned with bashing the GOP than with actually having a two sided discussion.

    And it's posts like this that give me that impression:



    People are always going to care about the governing principles of their kid's education.

    Anyway I'm done with you.

    Shine on you crazy hate machine.
    I think it's silly to deny that that is the motivation. Are you ashamed of it? They want kids to learn that America is a Christian nation because they don't like resistance to religious infiltration of government on the grounds of separation of church and state. They want kids to learn that McCarthyism was justified because communism is bad, mkay, and they don't want anybody to start thinking that those commies got treated any worse than they deserved. They want to include creationism in science classrooms because they think that teaching anything else, especially anything having to do with evolution, undermines Christian belief. They want the economics and sociology curriculum to ensure that nobody becomes critical of capitalism. They want to teach abstinence-only sex ed because anything else promotes deviant sexual behavior.

    The list of this kind of shit is long, and it's stuff that has come straight from the horse's mouth, so I don't know why you think that pointing it out is the same as hating on the GOP. Especially since I wouldn't even lump it in with the entire GOP...it's really more specific to social conservatives of the crazy fundamentalist Christian variety.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #167
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The people of the Texas electorate (those affected) have every right to voice their opinions.

    But for those unaffected by Texas law, those living in other states, to sit in judgement of the actions of the Texas legislature while having no understanding of what the people of Texas want is ridiculous.

    If the people of California want to ban pistol grips on rifles because they don't like the way they look... that is their right regardless of my (a citizen of Florida) opinions on the matter.
    DB, the problem is laws in Texas DO affect other states. This is especially true when it comes to education. And often times, in many other cases too.

    What California and Texas decide will affect more than these two states alone. After all, California and Texas are the single biggest buyer (besides a few other states like New York) when it comes to books and teaching material that those two states want. This means, whatever they decide to teach or not teach directly gets funneled to smaller states like Alaska and New Mexico.

    Alaska and New Mexico don't really get as big of a say because California and Texas will tend to be where the money and the majority of the people will be at. Not every book publisher will print 50 different teaching material for 50 different states because it isn't efficient nor does it give a lot of profit. If the book publisher can print the same 60m+ books to the rest of the country, they can and will force it upon other states.

  8. #168
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,575

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Would you prefer, each state had the right to determine (to a reasonable extent) the educational standards within it's boundaries....

    Or would you prefer that the Federal government took educational standards out of the hands of the states?
    The latter. Let the government set the standards, then let each state implement them in the way that makes most sense for them. It is more important that I am a U.S. citizen than a resident of State X. Society is too mobile for people to have to understand and navigate a patchwork of 50 sets of laws, regulations, and standards, especially for something as important as education. As Ivy eloquently stated, actions of one state, especially large states like Texas, are felt across the country. This makes us, at least to some extent, our brother's keeper. Allowing each state to do what it wants in the name of state sovereignty is what allowed Hitler to kill as many people as he did. (There: first mention of Nazis in thread.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Because it seems to me, that without some material reason to be as vitriolic as many in this thread have been, regarding the choices of conservatives or the TX GOP more specifically, that the only point to this thread is to say, "wow look how dumb Republicans are, lets all jump in and pound on them".

    While there has some discussion of the specifics of the policy, the weight of the thread seems to be more concerned with bashing the GOP than with actually having a two sided discussion.
    We're not bashing Republicans, just dumb Republicans. When someone starts a thread on something stupid Democrats are doing, I will bash them, too. (That, by the way, is the beauty of critical thinking: equal opportunity exposure of stupidity and deceit.) You won't find me bashing the likes of Olympia Snowe, or Dick Lugar . . . but wait: they are leaving office. Maybe Republicans do have a problem with intelligence and civility after all.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #169
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The latter. Let the government set the standards, then let each state implement them in the way that makes most sense for them. It is more important that I am a U.S. citizen than a resident of State X. Society is too mobile for people to have to understand and navigate a patchwork of 50 sets of laws, regulations, and standards, especially for something as important as education. As Ivy eloquently stated, actions of one state, especially large states like Texas, are felt across the country. This makes us, at least to some extent, our brother's keeper. Allowing each state to do what it wants in the name of state sovereignty is what allowed Hitler to kill as many people as he did. (There: first mention of Nazis in thread.)
    Umm, what? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

  10. #170
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    I was right there until the Nazi thing.

    But regarding educational standards, most states actually ARE moving towards a set of shared standards- voluntarily. (Well, sort of. There's some federal money incentive involved in the form of Race to the Top funds.) And they are very good standards. I work with them every day (I write and edit textbooks). Some of the states' standards are just ponderous, prohibitive pieces of bureaucracy. Texas is one of the worst, but unfortunately for their teachers and students they're not adopting the Common Core standards. The Common Core standards are clear, rigorous but fairly simple, based on authentic sources, and since they'll be more widely implemented there will be better educational material available addressing them. (I mean, I'm biased, but still.)

Similar Threads

  1. Texas GOP Platform: Criminalize Gay Marriage and Ban Sodomy
    By Ginkgo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 129
    Last Post: 07-05-2010, 10:40 PM
  2. Critical Thinking
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-03-2010, 04:49 AM
  3. Critical thinking resources and exercises
    By Wiley45 in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-10-2009, 09:39 PM
  4. What degree promotes critical thinking the best?
    By ygolo in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-11-2008, 05:05 PM
  5. Democracy, Critical Thinking, & Journalism
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-18-2007, 07:33 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO