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  1. #151
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It is one thing for parents to constrain the behavior of a child, teaching him/her what is acceptable in their family, culture, and community. The child will, however, not always have parents on hand to tell him/her what to do and eventually must learn to make decisions on his/her own. Critical thinking skills are an essential tool in making sound and responsible decisions as an adult. Learning such skills is thus a key part of growing up.
    While I agree, I think the concern is that teachers are propagandizing certain beliefs as logical and singling out certain beliefs for deconstruction, rather than simply teaching critical thinking and logic skills. I admit I haven't been keeping up with the debate, though.....that's just my initial assumption from the title of the thread.

    The Texas Republicans would be better served attempting to reform those subjects rather than seeking to eliminate them, if the latter is their intention.

  2. #152
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    While I agree, I think the concern is that teachers are propagandizing certain beliefs as logical and singling out certain beliefs for deconstruction, rather than simply teaching critical thinking and logic skills. I admit I haven't been keeping up with the debate, though.....that's just my initial assumption from the title of the thread.

    The Texas Republicans would be better served attempting to reform those subjects rather than seeking to eliminate them, if the latter is their intention
    .
    Yes to the highlighted. They would be better served to promote real critical thinking, which can be applied to ANY beliefs. Telling someone a belief is logical (and another one isn't) is not teaching critical thinking. It is just making more unsubstantiated claims. Students should no more accept such a claim uncritically than one that says the Earth really was created in 6 days.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #153
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    I'm a fan of critical thinking education.... I had my fair share of it in IB in high school.

    But the right of the Texas GOP to put on the platform whatever the hell a majority of them can agree to, stands paramount.

    This is just platform stuff. Many items on a platform are used just to fire up the base. More specifically, those items are worded in such a way as to appeal to the base.

    Independent voters usually stick to watching debates, and following the news as opposed to going through a platform line by line.

    Most importantly, this isn't law and almost certainly wont become law. This is too contentious of a position to be anything but an attempt to galvanize the base.

    If they tried to ban critical thinking education in TX the shit storm would would be huge and would play out nationally.

    Given all of that, I think this is just one more GOP punching bag thread.

    I don't start threads about how dumb I think the positions or the people on the other side are.

    Doing so would just exacerbate partisan tensions, and do nothing to advance the conversation about where our country should be headed.

  4. #154
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'm a fan of critical thinking education.... I had my fair share of it in IB in high school.

    But the right of the Texas GOP to put on the platform whatever the hell a majority of them can agree to, stands paramount.

    This is just platform stuff. Many items on a platform are used just to fire up the base. More specifically, those items are worded in such a way as to appeal to the base.

    Independent voters usually stick to watching debates, and following the news as opposed to going through a platform line by line.

    Most importantly, this isn't law and almost certainly wont become law. This is too contentious of a position to be anything but an attempt to galvanize the base.

    If they tried to ban critical thinking education in TX the shit storm would would be huge and would play out nationally.

    Given all of that, I think this is just one more GOP punching bag thread.

    I don't start threads about how dumb I think the positions or the people on the other side are.

    Doing so would just exacerbate partisan tensions, and do nothing to advance the conversation about where our country should be headed.
    Really? Because the Texas BOE has already made curriculum changes to "conservatize" social studies (and other subjects) in the last couple of years. Stuff like teaching that the founding fathers intended this to be a Christian nation, that McCarthyism was vindicated, and even changing the word "capitalism" to "free enterprise system" to avoid negative connotations of the word.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #155
    right on the left wing Philosorapteuse's Avatar
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    Insufficient face to palm.

    I can never quite decide whether things like this make me want to laugh, set fire to things or just despair in a corner somewhere...
    "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

    I'd be a card-carrying sensotard, but I can't find the goddamn card.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Really? Because the Texas BOE has already made curriculum changes to "conservatize" social studies (and other subjects) in the last couple of years. Stuff like teaching that the founding fathers intended this to be a Christian nation, that McCarthyism was vindicated, and even changing the word "capitalism" to "free enterprise system" to avoid negative connotations of the word.
    Well that would back me up even more.

    The elected leaders of TX have every right (and in fact a duty) to legislate in a way they see fit. As long as their state decisions don't interfere with federal law, there is nothing wrong with what they've done, or even what they plan to do.

    The people of TX have a right to conduct their affairs in whatever way they prefer. You have no right to condemn what they do, anymore than they have a right to condemn what your party of choice, or state legislators intend to or have done.

    I love states rights.

  7. #157
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    Leave them to their follies, and I'll try to leave you to yours.

  8. #158
    right on the left wing Philosorapteuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Well that would back me up even more.

    The elected leaders of TX have every right (and in fact a duty) to legislate in a way they see fit. As long as their state decisions don't interfere with federal law, there is nothing wrong with what they've done, or even what they plan to do.

    The people of TX have a right to conduct their affairs in whatever way they prefer. You have no right to condemn what they do, anymore than they have a right to condemn what your party of choice, or state legislators intend to or have done.

    I love states rights.
    I rather think they do have the right to condemn and criticise what they say actually, precisely on the same grounds that they have the right to vote for/against someone. Particularly, perhaps, when said decisions are seen to impact negatively upon those people - not all of whom, I note, will have voted them in. A party's being democratically elected doesn't in some way shield them from being held up against people's moral/ethical/practical yardsticks. Nor, I think, should it. Whether those yardsticks are helpful, relevant or influential at all is a related but different question.
    "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

    I'd be a card-carrying sensotard, but I can't find the goddamn card.

  9. #159
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosorapteuse View Post
    I rather think they do have the right to condemn and criticise what they say actually, precisely on the same grounds that they have the right to vote for/against someone. Particularly, perhaps, when said decisions are seen to impact negatively upon those people - not all of whom, I note, will have voted them in. A party's being democratically elected doesn't in some way shield them from being held up against people's moral/ethical/practical yardsticks. Nor, I think, should it. Whether those yardsticks are helpful, relevant or influential at all is a related but different question.
    exactly. They may have the legal/procedural right to legislate however they see fit, but all of us have the legal/moral/ethical/constitutional right to speak out against their decisions as we see fit.

    Arizona has the right to be huge dicks to the Latino community too, at least for now, but I don't plan on shutting up about that any time soon.

  10. #160
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    The people of the Texas electorate (those affected) have every right to voice their opinions.

    But for those unaffected by Texas law, those living in other states, to sit in judgement of the actions of the Texas legislature while having no understanding of what the people of Texas want is ridiculous.

    If the people of California want to ban pistol grips on rifles because they don't like the way they look... that is their right regardless of my (a citizen of Florida) opinions on the matter.

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