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  1. #1
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    Default Direct Democracy Via internet.

    As we all know we live in a highly technological society. And i think we should keep moving democracy forward.

    What do you think about this idea: Instead of election you have an account on the "government" where you can log in. Here you can enter several sections the two biggest would be the economy and the proposition section.

    In the economy section you can freely place your tax-money where you please, and discuss and vote for different economical policies. If you are on the school board or hospital board for you can ask for more money and directly tell why you need it to the public.

    In the proposition section you can read and add new propositions for which the public gets to vote. There should be an added discussion section to each proposition, a section with media relevant and scientific research relevant to this proposition.

    If a person wishes to "vote" one can always choose a representative in one or several areas or different representatives in one or several areas. But always with the right to change ones decision.

    I see several pitfalls of this system, but like all systems there is pitfalls. One problem are would be if people sell votes but thats illegal today so I don't see that as a problem.

    As far as corporations go they might wanna place there tax-money freely as well and doing so the could severely damage or give big disadvantages to areas that have lower tax ratings or let you dump toxic waste and so on. If they should have that right is surely up for debate and should be put to a vote, but I would argue that people have rights and corporations don't so people should have the right to place their tax money.

    What do you think?
    "Im right here, Deal with me!"

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the problem with democracy and republics has less to do with the format and more to do with the fact that most people just don't educate themselves. For example, unlimited corporate campaign contributions would be irrelevant if citizens were diligent in educating themselves because they would be less likely to be influenced by political advertisements.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ...but wouldn't the internet make it easier to keep people informed? Or would it just be a goldmine for demagogues and con men?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ...but wouldn't the internet make it easier to keep people informed? Or would it just be a goldmine for demagogues and con men?
    Sure, it makes it easier but it doesn't make people more motivated. People could educate themselves now, but they choose not to. It's a flaw in human nature.

    Something I've wondered is what would happen if ballots did not show a candidate's political party (which would also eliminate the ability to vote for a straight ticket). Would people just vote for the name they've heard the most? Would they abstain for fear they could be voting for the "wrong guy"? Would they be more motivated to educate themselves? The last one is probably unlikely.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I dunno...convenience goes a long way in making people motivated to do something they do have an interest in. The question becomes..are they truly not interested, or is it just too much effort to go educate themselves thoroughly?

    I for one hate the fact that my country has a voting duty. That's right. We get penalized and fined heavily if we do NOT vote. Meanwhile we're forced to sacrifice a free day to go stand in long lines to cast our vote on antiquated slow computers that get jammed every five minutes. I can tell you now: I could care less about voting this way. But give me a notification on voting day, as well as internet access, and I'll gladly have an opinion. Especially if beforehand people make it easy to review the parties and objectively list what each one stands for.

    Fast food politics ftw. Most people just don't specialize in politics or even have it as a side-hobby. Other things in their life matter more and that's their right. Doesn't mean they don't care once they are called upon to have an opinion. They just need the Cliffs notes, plz.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Sure, it makes it easier but it doesn't make people more motivated. People could educate themselves now, but they choose not to. It's a flaw in human nature.

    Something I've wondered is what would happen if ballots did not show a candidate's political party (which would also eliminate the ability to vote for a straight ticket). Would people just vote for the name they've heard the most? Would they abstain for fear they could be voting for the "wrong guy"? Would they be more motivated to educate themselves? The last one is probably unlikely.
    Part of the problem is how people educate themselves. I hear people all the time claim that they have educated themselves... But it's from obviously biased sources.

    I actually wondered something similar... What would happen if instead of a name or a political party... what each candidate supported was listed... How would people vote then?


  7. #7
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    Part of the problem is how people educate themselves. I hear people all the time claim that they have educated themselves... But it's from obviously biased sources.

    I actually wondered something similar... What would happen if instead of a name or a political party... what each candidate supported was listed... How would people vote then?
    That's true, but I was speaking in a more theoretical respect. Most people who "educate" themselves are really just seeking validation for things they already believe.

    Getting rid of the name, too, would be interesting. Unfortunately, this would require political candidate's positions to be distilled down to something short that would probably lack nuance. It would also require the people making the ballots to decide which issues are important because it's not practical to list every single issue on a ballot. Voting could take forever then, and that would probably discourage many people from participating.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Sure, it makes it easier but it doesn't make people more motivated. People could educate themselves now, but they choose not to. It's a flaw in human nature.
    It's a Flaw in the human nature, now is it? first of all what is human nature? how do you define it? Because as I see humans we have changed radically over the 250 000 years we have existed. We have gone from cavemen to hunter-gather to agricultural to feodalism to State capitalism. So I think stating something as "human nature" is a faulty argument cause there is no such thing. Would cannbalism be human nature? cooperation? competition? there are all of these societies it dosent mean its human nature. Today we have a society that thrives on competition hence people are fed via the media that "humans are competetive by nature" no its by culture not nature.

    I know people are interested but without control they feel like it dosent matter. People are highly interested in what schools there children go to, what kind of care there elderly get, how safe their workplace is and what kind of social security they get. I hear ordinary people talking about this every day but their at the hands of their elected leaders.

    I strongly believe that with more responsibility people will get more interested. There just isen't any point today cause they have no control.

    Something I've wondered is what would happen if ballots did not show a candidate's political party (which would also eliminate the ability to vote for a straight ticket). Would people just vote for the name they've heard the most? Would they abstain for fear they could be voting for the "wrong guy"? Would they be more motivated to educate themselves? The last one is probably unlikely.
    Well yeah probably they would vote for the guy they heard the most. Look at Us elections i think its like 50 years back or something the guy with the highest campaign funding is they guy that wins.

    Obamas Campaign was on fortune magazine if i remember correctly as "the best marketing campaign ever". In Swedens last election the university of Örebro made a study looking at the front pages of the biggest papers it showed that the leader of one block was presented negatively somewhere around 20 times and the leader of the other block was presented negatively around 5 times. On the positive side the numbers where reversed. Guess who won?

    This is a big problem cause I'm pretty sure that its the medias job to provide information on both sides but politics in many countries has turned out to be "would i like to drink coffe with this guy", When I asked people why when i heard they voted for our current represantive of state many answered that "he was cute" or that "he seems more confident". It's a real problem when elections turns into something more like a crappy teve show like "Idol".

    And yes people have a responsibility to educate themselves but media doesn't make it easy for them. I think you need to remember that Schools in Sweden and America wasn't started by the state it was started by factory workers, collectives of farmers and taken over by the state.

    I think this is a serious misconception, cause most people I meat are interested talking and learning if you talk their language but media has brainwashed them into idiots. So i think a more correct statement is "Media has made people not interested".
    "Im right here, Deal with me!"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That's true, but I was speaking in a more theoretical respect. Most people who "educate" themselves are really just seeking validation for things they already believe.
    Yes. That drives me crazy more than anything. People pick a position before really researching it... And then their research tends to be completely biased and they look for anything and everything that supports what they believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Getting rid of the name, too, would be interesting. Unfortunately, this would require political candidate's positions to be distilled down to something short that would probably lack nuance. It would also require the people making the ballots to decide which issues are important because it's not practical to list every single issue on a ballot. Voting could take forever then, and that would probably discourage many people from participating.
    It would definitely be pretty difficult. As an independent, I think that's why I'd prefer just names or something... Far too many people don't care what a person stands for, just the letter behind their name.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    Part of the problem is how people educate themselves. I hear people all the time claim that they have educated themselves... But it's from obviously biased sources.

    I actually wondered something similar... What would happen if instead of a name or a political party... what each candidate supported was listed... How would people vote then?
    I can tell you this when Obama ran for president I went to his homepage to try to find his policies and coulden't find any, there where lots of text about change and prosperity but nothing concrete...that scared me.
    "Im right here, Deal with me!"

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