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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Eh, wasn't intended to be particularly Freudian, though that did seem like the playing field you presented.

    When I refer to their being "closeted," I mean that they do not incorporate their sexual preferences as part of their social persona. It's not that social expectations prevent the true expression of the self, so much as social entanglements making it so that open expression of sexual desires is perceived to be undesirable on the part of the person.

    Another way of putting it - a person may desire being sexually submissive. That person may also want social equality and agency. Absent any proof to the contrary, there is no reason that a person who expresses both desires does not truly feel as such. However, if others were to know of that person's desire for sexual submission, it may thwart the concurrent desire for social equality and agency, as they may think less of the person for it. As such, it may be better to omit the desire for sexual submission from the person's social persona, or compartmentalize it into certain contexts, than to be open in expression of it. The open expression of that sexual desire may bring relatively little in the way of fulfilling sexual goals, while having an extremely detrimental effect on social goals.
    See what your last post and this one are working out IS classical Freudian theory, its about how the wild sexuality requires repression in order to share the benefits of civilisation, its Freud's central idea in Civilisation And Its Discontents and Freudians would consider the compartmentalisation or public/private persona to be the psychological dynamic they study or analyse.

    Masochism or submissiveness could be an overpowering superego, that is the internalised voice of conscience, or a result of neurotic guilt feelings resulting in the need to be submissive or masochistic in order to enjoy sexuality without guilt, it could arise from conflicts and transference wherein earlier significant relationships, those with parents, influence present relationships. That's all Freudian. Also Freud's concept of sexuality is pretty broad, it covers just about all social interaction.

    I dont think that its correct though, I think that Jung and Fromm's ideas which posit that power relationships generally, dictated by social character, archetypes and culture (culture is influenced by literature or literature reflects it) influence specific relationships and thier accompanying norms, including sexual norms.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Who is ot popular with? Women? If so, I imagine it'd be more of a drive to transcend real and perceived abuse by men. Of among perhaps more of a sadistic desire to dominate because of feelings of powerlessness. I don't know anything about the book aside from what you have written here. It could also just mean bdsm is becoming more popthemelol (transcendence in submission theme). Perhaps I just think about transcendence too much D:
    Its about a male millionaire character who gets a female virgin to conscent to being a submissive, being totally dominated by him and its all drawn up in a contract, he controls everything about them and they the conscent to the domination and want to relinquish all freedom.

  3. #13
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    What?

    First of all ..."women's lib"...is this 1952, sir?

    Secondly, what do a sub-section of women's sexual desires have to do with political equality?

    I hate, hate, hate when people insist that feminists can't be submissives or exhibitionists or sex workers or any of that. It makes me roll my eyes so hard, like "really, you don't get it do you."

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its about a male millionaire character who gets a female virgin to conscent to being a submissive, being totally dominated by him and its all drawn up in a contract, he controls everything about them and they the conscent to the domination and want to relinquish all freedom.
    Well this sounds totally disgusting to me, and I probably wouldn't waste my time reading this book, but even if women want to read about this in fantasy doesn't even mean they'd want it IRL. Some women also may read it out of mere curiosity, not any real sexual desire.

    I mean I loved loved loved the Flowers in the Attic series when I was a teen, but that doesn't mean I enjoy incest or fantasize about my family members.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    What?

    First of all ..."women's lib"...is this 1952, sir?

    Secondly, what do a sub-section of women's sexual desires have to do with political equality?

    I hate, hate, hate when people insist that feminists can't be submissives or exhibitionists or sex workers or any of that. It makes me roll my eyes so hard, like "really, you don't get it do you."
    I'm not saying they cant be anything, I'm just saying that it rings hollow wanting to be liberated from subordination if its really something you crave.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well this sounds totally disgusting to me, and I probably wouldn't waste my time reading this book, but even if women want to read about this in fantasy doesn't even mean they'd want it IRL. Some women also may read it out of mere curiosity, not any real sexual desire.

    I mean I loved loved loved the Flowers in the Attic series when I was a teen, but that doesn't mean I enjoy incest or fantasize about my family members.
    Oh I know, I've read erotic fiction before and I think perhaps it is the erotic dimension which draws many of the readership in but I'm surprised that that many women appear to be attuned to submissive fantasies, I mean really? Although I dont see how anyone wants to dominate or be dominated, there's something wrong with that to me.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Oh I know, I've read erotic fiction before and I think perhaps it is the erotic dimension which draws many of the readership in but I'm surprised that that many women appear to be attuned to submissive fantasies, I mean really? Although I dont see how anyone wants to dominate or be dominated, there's something wrong with that to me.
    D/s relationships aren't wrong, but just because someone wants to be SEXUALLY submissive, doesn't mean that they necessarily want (for example in the case of a woman) to be dominated by all men - in fact, they may find this idea with *men in general* absolutely horrifying and disgusting, and may be very assertive with men they don't love and aren't attracted to, but want to be privately submissive to their boyfriend or husband.

    Or a person can be a very prominent person in business or politics or any other place in the world, and still be a sub. In fact it's pretty common, in case you didn't know (I'm guessing you didn't, since you made this thread).

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not saying they cant be anything, I'm just saying that it rings hollow wanting to be liberated from subordination if its really something you crave.
    You can't be serious. Why do you think ALL women are reading this just because it's popular? And again, I think it's pretty stupid for you to equate sexual fantasies with political and social equality.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You can't be serious. Why do you think ALL women are reading this just because it's popular? And again, I think it's pretty stupid for you to equate sexual fantasies with political and social equality.
    I didnt equate it with political and social equality, I was talking about womans liberation, granted that is a part of it, although it does seem like subordination is not something women want to fight if this is any guide. They all want to submit to the man. All women dont need to be reading it but virtually everyone I've spoken to in the last couple of days are and I've contact with a lot of different women daily.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    D/s relationships aren't wrong, but just because someone wants to be SEXUALLY submissive, doesn't mean that they necessarily want (for example in the case of a woman) to be dominated by all men - in fact, they may find this idea with *men in general* absolutely horrifying and disgusting, and may be very assertive with men they don't love and aren't attracted to, but want to be privately submissive to their boyfriend or husband.

    Or a person can be a very prominent person in business or politics or any other place in the world, and still be a sub. In fact it's pretty common, in case you didn't know (I'm guessing you didn't, since you made this thread).
    I personally couldnt live with that sort of inconsistency, it seems like a kind of cognitive dissonance to me.

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