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  1. #51
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Many of the problems with prostitution would be solved if it was legalized. Same as with drugs, there will always be a demand, and making it illegal puts it into the hands of criminals.
    Whole-heartedly agree. By the logic in your previous post, because it isn't legalized now, it means that society devalues women, correct?

    It has little to do with the law and more to do with biology and culture. Men don't seek help. They keep it in or they blow their brains out. Any man who would deliberately fail a suicide attempt to get attention would be looked down on even more. The same is not true for women. When a woman fails at a suicide attempt, people rush to her aid, trying to figure out what's wrong and to help her with her issues.
    The bolded is not true, although it is characteristic of depressed thinking patterns for both men and women. Failed suicides are not brushed off by hospitals if they have a penis and sent to therapy if they have a vagina. And how is this relevant to society devaluing men, exactly?

    Teacher salaries are low because there are so many of them. If there was a shortage of teachers, the salaries would be higher. Nurse salaries are subject to the same forces. Soldier salaries are based on what the government determines a soldier needs to support a family.
    If there were a shortage of soldiers for the army, the salaries wouldn't be raised? And once more, how does this support society devaluing men, when women are also soldiers? They might not have been in the past, but that was due to sexist societal norms at the time - women weren't soldiers because they were considered weak and fragile baby machines, not because the state wanted to throw away lives and thought the men's were worth less than the women's.

    And far, far more time is devoted to the discussion of the wage gender gap than workplace deaths in the US. Clearly one issue is more important than the other.
    Yes, because the former involves (in some cases) sexism which is a more controversial topic than worker safety, because everyone agrees that people dying on the job is bad. Controversy = more people talking about it = seen more in the media, politics etc. You're comparing apples to bicycles here. Discussion doesn't necessarily mean that people think something is more important, it means that a lot of people disagree very strongly on it. Look at the freaking threads on male circumcision, if you don't believe me.

    That's not a strawman, that's the cultural attitude of the US. Maybe Canada is different, I don't know since I don't live there. But that is how things are in the US.
    That's not something I can argue, I suppose, although it seems highly unlikely to me.

    @ those articles, that sounds extremely messed up. I wouldn't care how intensively they tracked down deadbeat dads (and moms - anyone who abandons a child is despicable and even more so if the state has to then pay for it) if they had a mandatory paternity test. That stuff about the state disregarding paternity tests is beyond bizarre. I don't know that much about the American welfare system, but in a lot of ways it seems even more messed up than ours.
    -end of thread-

  2. #52
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Whole-heartedly agree. By the logic in your previous post, because it isn't legalized now, it means that society devalues women, correct?
    Nope. This is a case of valuing women and trying to help them, but implementing a policy that actually hurts them. The effects are counter-intuitive to simple conservative minds.

    The bolded is not true, although it is characteristic of depressed thinking patterns for both men and women. Failed suicides are not brushed off by hospitals if they have a penis and sent to therapy if they have a vagina. And how is this relevant to society devaluing men, exactly?
    Men get hospital treatment, but they're far less likely to get the support of other men in a social and emotional sense. Compare that to women who are more likely to rally to each others' defense.

    If there were a shortage of soldiers for the army, the salaries wouldn't be raised? And once more, how does this support society devaluing men, when women are also soldiers? They might not have been in the past, but that was due to sexist societal norms at the time - women weren't soldiers because they were considered weak and fragile baby machines, not because the state wanted to throw away lives and thought the men's were worth less than the women's.
    If there's a shortage of soldiers, the country does one of two things:
    1. They institute a draft, which happened during Vietnam
    2. They force soldiers into more tours of duty, which has happened during this War on Terrorism

    The government has not increased military compensation to entice more people to join. Any increases in compensation have been due to the increases in cost of living.

    Feminists haven't protested the poor medical care veterans receive...yet...once there are enough women in the military, feminists will get behind it.

    Yes, because the former involves (in some cases) sexism which is a more controversial topic than worker safety, because everyone agrees that people dying on the job is bad. Controversy = more people talking about it = seen more in the media, politics etc. You're comparing apples to bicycles here. Discussion doesn't necessarily mean that people think something is more important, it means that a lot of people disagree very strongly on it. Look at the freaking threads on male circumcision, if you don't believe me.
    Wage discrimination isn't controversial, pretty much everyone agrees that it's bad.

    That's not something I can argue, I suppose, although it seems highly unlikely to me.
    The US still exalts the mantras of personal responsibility and rugged individualism...for men. Women aren't held to the same standard, the exception being women who reach the highest levels, like Hillary Clinton. They are judged by the same standards as men. Incidentally, here's a quote by Hillary Clinton that is related to this discussion:

    Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children. - Conference on domestic violence in San Salvador, El Salvador (17 November 1998)
    @ those articles, that sounds extremely messed up. I wouldn't care how intensively they tracked down deadbeat dads (and moms - anyone who abandons a child is despicable and even more so if the state has to then pay for it) if they had a mandatory paternity test. That stuff about the state disregarding paternity tests is beyond bizarre. I don't know that much about the American welfare system, but in a lot of ways it seems even more messed up than ours.
    You have no idea how f-cked up the US is.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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