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  1. #1

    Default Muslim Brotherhood win election

    So it looks like one of the first experiments in the worlds youngest democracy has been a victim for anti-democrats, what's the verdict on that?

  2. #2
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Its what I expected....I wish I was wrong.

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    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    If nations aren't allowed to make their own mistakes, they'll never learn.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Or perhaps they will surprise all of us and pull off this new type of democracy, with their own flair and cultural flavor? Here's hoping

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    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I can understand why some nations wouldn't want to adopt the ideas of consumerism and instant gratification (and the corporate power infrastructure that promote those ideas) that dominate our society. We don't feel more fulfilled despite the fact that we have so much "stuff".
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If nations aren't allowed to make their own mistakes, they'll never learn.
    I agree with this.

    Also I think this is a good wake up call for the USA and those Neocon "do gooders" to butt out of other nation's business. There has been a push by these people for intervention in other nations to force "democracy" (or a flawed version of republicanism) down the throats of other nations, similar to how the Trotskyites were pushing for world communism.

    Ironically it was a sold to the public as a counter measure to fight world communism, but now after the fall of the USSR its pushing on ahead like a demented robot.

    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vizconde View Post
    There has been a push by these people for intervention in other nations to force "democracy" (or a flawed version of republicanism) down the throats of other nations, similar to how the Trotskyites were pushing for world communism.
    Virtually every communist regime was pushing for world communism (albeit in competition with other communist regimes, a major reason for their lack of long-term success). The troskyites were simply the least pragmatic (and therefore the least powerful or aggressive) faction. Not that Islamism is currently an existential threat like global communism was, I'm just sayin'.

    Anyways, the criticism regarding US policy in Egypt was more about us being hypocrites who were strategically supporting an oppresive and undemocratic regime. We don't really have a dog in this race (except perhaps for the weakest, liberal element), and attempting to postpone the bottom-up democratic uprising would only have made the problem worse (for a variety of reasons, Islamist sentiment was steadily increasing while the Mubarek regime was in power).

    Non-intervention was the best move....that doesn't make it a good one, nor does it mean a disaster with regional and/or global repercussions won't occur. The least to be expected is an illiberal democracy that routinely oppresses minorities and Muslim dissenters, though perhaps without going so far as to provoke international sanctions.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Or perhaps they will surprise all of us and pull off this new type of democracy, with their own flair and cultural flavor? Here's hoping
    Srly?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Virtually every communist regime was pushing for world communism (albeit in competition with other communist regimes, a major reason for their lack of long-term success). The troskyites were simply the least pragmatic (and therefore the least powerful or aggressive) faction. Not that Islamism is currently an existential threat like global communism was, I'm just sayin'.
    Stalin and most communist national regimes werent pushing for "world communism", they operated nationalist politics, even when Stalin did engage in land grabs it was to create sattellites and buffer zones while he built "communism in one country/nation" which Trotsky thought was an impossibility, particularly in a backward underdeveloped country like Russia, Lenin and Trotsky both felt that the Russian revolution was doomed to defeat if revolutions in, at least European, industrial centres like Germany, France or England didnt follow quickly.

    Those things might seem like moot points or splitting hairs given the victors history of the Cold War but anyway, I think analogies between political islam and socialism or communism or other radical "progressive" ideologies are seriously off the mark anyway.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I can understand why some nations wouldn't want to adopt the ideas of consumerism and instant gratification (and the corporate power infrastructure that promote those ideas) that dominate our society. We don't feel more fulfilled despite the fact that we have so much "stuff".
    Well that I agree with completely, although I do worry that when attempts at a faith based alternative fail to produce the desired results that there'll just be greater and greater hatred for the western "other" occasioning terror or other hostilities.

    Especially if they create obsticles to economic prosperity in the process, or even obsticles to the short cuts people want to that goal.

    This could be the beginning of the shortest exercise or experiment in popular sovereignty in history, also who needs another bloudy Ayatollah?

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