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  1. #21
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Fortunately, I don't suffer from pedophilia. Are you struggling? It sounds like you might be.
    I personally do not, but I sympathize with those who do. I think we too often condemn people without truly understanding what it means to live their lives. You mentioned that we all have desires which we choose not to act upon, but my point is you may not truly comprehend the extent of his desires, and so you are ill equipped to relate his situation to your own. I in no way meant to insinuate that you were a pedophile; in fact, my point was based upon the assumption that you are not.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I personally do not, but I sympathize with those who do. I think we too often condemn people without truly understanding what it means to live their lives. You mentioned that we all have desires which we choose not to act upon, but my point is you may not truly comprehend the extent of his desires, and so you are ill equipped to relate his situation to your own. I in no way meant to insinuate that you were a pedophile; in fact, my point was based upon the assumption that you are not.
    I don't see how you asking how I quell my sexual desires for young boys translates to "I in no way meant to insinuate that you were a pedophile", but I'm not offended. A jab is a jab.

    The problem is that there ARE certain behaviors that society at large has agreed upon as being wrong but to the individual committing the crime it has been made right on a personal level. Not only sexual preferences, but crimes such as murder. There have been plenty of cases where people have killed, and to us it seems hateful, horrific and monstrous but to the killer, it has been justified in their mind and even a necessity. The story about the mass murder of children at a camp in Norway, by Anders Behring Breivik comes to mind.

    My question is, how do we deal with our sympathies towards people that seem to have made mistakes but due to forces out of their control? People that have lost touch with reality and deviated from what society considers an ethical course? How much consideration should be extended when these people are processed through the justice system? Your sympathy seems to indicate that his life sentence isn't properly matched to the severity of the crime from the perspective of the courts.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    His victims were actually children, not his college team. Although, he would use the team facilities as a home base.
    I always wonder if anyone, anyone at all, had suspiscions about him while this was all going on.

    There's people I know who I have suspiscions about and watch very careful, things worse than simple manipulation or even this sort of crime, I watch them carefully but can prove shit but I'm absolutely sure that if anything were to come to light about them eventually that I'll be the last to say "I had no idea".

  4. #24
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I always wonder if anyone, anyone at all, had suspiscions about him while this was all going on.
    He was caught years ago performing sexual acts on kids in the shower room. That's part of the whole scandal. That's why Joe Paterno, the beloved head coach of the Penn State team was fired; they felt like he didn't properly report the incident that was brought to his attention (he did, but his superiors did nothing about it). The president of the school was fired as well. That's a real brief rundown. You should look back at news articles on how this all unraveled. It's pretty saddening.

  5. #25
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    I don't see how you asking how I quell my sexual desires for young boys translates to "I in no way meant to insinuate that you were a pedophile", but I'm not offended. A jab is a jab.

    The problem is that there ARE certain behaviors that society at large has agreed upon as being wrong but to the individual committing the crime it has been made right on a personal level. Not only sexual preferences, but crimes such as murder. There have been plenty of cases where people have killed, and to us it seems hateful, horrific and monstrous but to the killer, it has been justified in their mind and even a necessity. The story about the mass murder of children at a camp in Norway, by Anders Behring Breivik comes to mind.

    My question is, how do we deal with our sympathies towards people that seem to have made mistakes but due to forces out of their control? People that have lost touch with reality and deviated from what society considers an ethical course? How much consideration should be extended when these people are processed through the justice system? Your sympathy seems to indicate that his life sentence isn't properly matched to the severity of the crime from the perspective of the courts.
    I assure you it was not meant as a jab. It was meant to illustrate that you don't have those feelings, and thus you could not reasonably claim to compare his situation to your own (i.e. I control my desires, so he should be able to as well). Further, I don't mean to insinuate that we, as a society, should allow such behavior; only that we should attempt to understand rather than condemn.

    Should Sandusky remain in prison for the rest of his life? Yes, I believe he should: 1) to serve as a deterrent to other would-be rapists; 2) to provide "justice" for the victims. However, to condemn him and be disgusted with him without understanding his struggle is to instill fear into others with similar problems. I bet if we removed our disgust with such people, and opened our arms to them, some might be inclined to seek help rather than live in the shadows.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I bet if we removed our disgust with such people, and opened our arms to them, some might be inclined to seek help rather than live in the shadows.
    I get what you're saying, but how do we as a society both extend our arms to these people while maintaining the understanding that they pose a big threat on children? I can't make the comparison of homosexuality to pedophilia, because pedophiles use force and manipulation. They might have a problem that is larger than themselves, so to speak, but ultimately they know what they're doing is wrong.

  8. #28
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I assure you it was not meant as a jab. It was meant to illustrate that you don't have those feelings, and thus you could not reasonably claim to compare his situation to your own (i.e. I control my desires, so he should be able to as well). Further, I don't mean to insinuate that we, as a society, should allow such behavior; only that we should attempt to understand rather than condemn.

    Should Sandusky remain in prison for the rest of his life? Yes, I believe he should: 1) to serve as a deterrent to other would-be rapists; 2) to provide "justice" for the victims. However, to condemn him and be disgusted with him without understanding his struggleis to instill fear into others with similar problems. I bet if we removed our disgust with such people, and opened our arms to them, some might be inclined to seek help rather than live in the shadows.
    What struggle?

    He didn't struggle with his dangerous feelings he acted out on them for years.

    I have no problem sympathizing with people who actually struggle and suffer themselves rather than inflict harm on others. He's not one of those people.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #29
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    I get what you're saying, but how do we as a society both extend our arms to these people while maintaining the understanding that they pose a big threat on children?
    It is a tough issue. I think a good start is education; teach people to be more accepting of the struggles of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    What struggle?

    He didn't struggle with his dangerous feelings he acted out on them for years.

    I have no problem sympathizing with people who actually struggle and suffer themselves rather than inflict harm on others. He's not one of those people.
    I used to be overweight. I struggled with binge eating. Even now, I have nights were I want to go eat a bunch of food. Some nights, the desire is so strong that I give in, and afterwards I hate myself. In fact, for the next several days I will feel like a terrible person for giving in. Just because I gave in doesn't mean I don't continue to struggle.
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  10. #30
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    It is a tough issue. I think a good start is education; teach people to be more accepting of the struggles of others.



    I used to be overweight. I struggled with binge eating. Even now, I have nights were I want to go eat a bunch of food. Some nights, the desire is so strong that I give in, and afterwards I hate myself. In fact, for the next several days I will feel like a terrible person for giving in. Just because I gave in doesn't mean I don't continue to struggle.
    There is an obvious difference as you are largely harming yourself. Nevertheless...

    Would you work in a donut shop where you could easily eat left over donuts?
    If year in and year out you returned to the donut shop to work when you had another job would you still do it?
    Would you call that a struggle when you set yourself up for failure in such a huge way?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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