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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterVenkman View Post
    3. We are not anarchists or communists - We are not revolutionaries. We fundamentally believe that the components of American democracy are great, it's just that many constitutional principles have been undermined by recent laws and jurisprudence. We oppose state power, but we do not want the government to go away. Additionally, we are not communists or capitalists. We consider ourselves to be post-capitalists. The contours of that ideology would be an entire different thread post. One component of this ideology is that resistance to capitalism is built into the capitalist system itself.
    Sounds a lot like Crimethinc and other similar trendy protest groups.

    Got to be honest that while these trendy post-modern twists and spin may make for interesting reading someone is still working or paying for it while you're doing it. You kin? The Rebel Sell was a better book at deconstructing this than what people gave it credit for.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterVenkman View Post
    3. We are not anarchists or communists - We are not revolutionaries. We fundamentally believe that the components of American democracy are great, it's just that many constitutional principles have been undermined by recent laws and jurisprudence. We oppose state power, but we do not want the government to go away. Additionally, we are not communists or capitalists. We consider ourselves to be post-capitalists. The contours of that ideology would be an entire different thread post. One component of this ideology is that resistance to capitalism is built into the capitalist system itself.
    Sounds a lot like Crimethinc and other similar trendy protest groups.

    Got to be honest that while these trendy post-modern twists and spin may make for interesting reading someone is still working or paying for it while you're doing it. You kin? The Rebel Sell was a better book at deconstructing this than what people gave it credit for.

  3. #83
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Strong arm them by saying we have absolutely no trace of your digital footprint?


    I really don't understand. It's not that I don't understand, it's that I don't understand how you two think you understand what this group is out to do. This group is out to make the internet an unregulated wasteland where anything placed upon its network is free game for any type of action.

    Okay, almost any type of action. They won't cut/paste your research essay to their hard drive


    I really don't know why I'm still going.
    First of all, they have the world's footprint. It is called the NSA, the DHS, the CIA, and the FBI. You, sir, don't know how much the government and businesses know more about you than you yourself.

    I am quite sure YOU and everyone on TypoC has some stupid information in one of those systems. Quite sure the NSA have every nonsensical information about YOU, me, and everyone else. Quite sure hundreds of businesses have information about you without you knowing that you have hundreds of cookies in your phone/computer/laptop/ipad. Quite sure hundreds of businesses that track your web visits know your precise habits to put ads on your browsing. All it takes is one bill and businesses can go through every information about you without warrant. That is the strong-arming they are working behind the scenes right now. You just choose to not look at that information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_I...Protection_Act/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Co...rade_Agreement

    Second of all, google/youtube and dozens of others sites have REPEATEDLY answered to take-down requests by yours truly, the government and every other copyright czars there are. In fact, Google has seen their take-down request skyrocket since last year and the MPAA/RIAA are still not happy with the results. http://gigaom.com/2012/06/17/google-...st-six-months/

    Third of all, you can ask the government to take down a site. Just ask Megaupload, which had everything from personal photos and documents to music and homemade videos. That is what the MPAA and RIAA willing to do even though their artists openly "endorsed" Megaupload. http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-megaupl...ck-but-120606/

    Fourth of all, ISPs, no need for explanation. If they even have an ounce of suspicion that you did something like copyright infringement or taking IP they will shut you down. You know why? It is because they are willing to work with the MPAA and RIAA. No law required. http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-57...ght-by-july-1/

    Fifth of all, the intended purpose of the WWW when it was created was to let it be as unregulated as possible because the government feared that no business would be willing to sign on with the internet. Now now, businesses have flocked to the internet and now they want to regulate it to the extreme?

    Sixth of all, it has already been regulated since 2000. It is called the DMCA. Even I know how unregulated it was when it first started and how it is now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act

    Seventh of all, the group that keeps the internet alive is a non-profit entity for the world. In no way, shape, or form is it safe to allow an entity like your own government and the UN to completely own it.

    What this group, and many other groups out there (like the 50+ Civil Liberties and Advocacy Groups out there) is to create an equilibrium. One in which, your government and businesses are unwilling to form because the majority of your congress knows almost nothing about(besides the information being spewed by lobbyists) the internet and the WWW at large besides going online to tweet one message or going on facebook in another. People actually worked with congress to proposed a bill called the OPEN act, you know what happen to that bill? It got shelved because they want an even more extreme bill instead.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Strong arm them by saying we have absolutely no trace of your digital footprint?


    I really don't understand. It's not that I don't understand, it's that I don't understand how you two think you understand what this group is out to do. This group is out to make the internet an unregulated wasteland where anything placed upon its network is free game for any type of action.

    Okay, almost any type of action. They won't cut/paste your research essay to their hard drive


    I really don't know why I'm still going.
    You bring shame to entps. usually entps aren't so closed minded
    1+1=3 OMFG

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munchies View Post
    You bring shame to entps. usually entps aren't so closed minded

    There is simply no new evidence here to dissuade my opinion of piracy, what's close minded about that? I'm not close minded, the argument is rubbish.

    To say there has been an argument is an overstatement. Kalach is the only person who has contributed any significant piece of information

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    First of all, they have the world's footprint. It is called the NSA, the DHS, the CIA, and the FBI. You, sir, don't know how much the government and businesses know more about you than you yourself.

    I am quite sure YOU and everyone on TypoC has some stupid information in one of those systems. Quite sure the NSA have every nonsensical information about YOU, me, and everyone else. Quite sure hundreds of businesses have information about you without you knowing that you have hundreds of cookies in your phone/computer/laptop/ipad. Quite sure hundreds of businesses that track your web visits know your precise habits to put ads on your browsing. All it takes is one bill and businesses can go through every information about you without warrant. That is the strong-arming they are working behind the scenes right now. You just choose to not look at that information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_I...Protection_Act/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Co...rade_Agreement

    Second of all, google/youtube and dozens of others sites have REPEATEDLY answered to take-down requests by yours truly, the government and every other copyright czars there are. In fact, Google has seen their take-down request skyrocket since last year and the MPAA/RIAA are still not happy with the results. http://gigaom.com/2012/06/17/google-...st-six-months/

    Third of all, you can ask the government to take down a site. Just ask Megaupload, which had everything from personal photos and documents to music and homemade videos. That is what the MPAA and RIAA willing to do even though their artists openly "endorsed" Megaupload. http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-megaupl...ck-but-120606/

    Fourth of all, ISPs, no need for explanation. If they even have an ounce of suspicion that you did something like copyright infringement or taking IP they will shut you down. You know why? It is because they are willing to work with the MPAA and RIAA. No law required. http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-57...ght-by-july-1/

    Fifth of all, the intended purpose of the WWW when it was created was to let it be as unregulated as possible because the government feared that no business would be willing to sign on with the internet. Now now, businesses have flocked to the internet and now they want to regulate it to the extreme?

    Sixth of all, it has already been regulated since 2000. It is called the DMCA. Even I know how unregulated it was when it first started and how it is now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._Copyright_Act

    Seventh of all, the group that keeps the internet alive is a non-profit entity for the world. In no way, shape, or form is it safe to allow an entity like your own government and the UN to completely own it.

    What this group, and many other groups out there (like the 50+ Civil Liberties and Advocacy Groups out there) is to create an equilibrium. One in which, your government and businesses are unwilling to form because the majority of your congress knows almost nothing about(besides the information being spewed by lobbyists) the internet and the WWW at large besides going online to tweet one message or going on facebook in another. People actually worked with congress to proposed a bill called the OPEN act, you know what happen to that bill? It got shelved because they want an even more extreme bill instead.

    I have never argued against the validity of a free internet. But to say it should be unregulated in the sense that the undermining of other's work is legally protected is a load.

  7. #87
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    There is simply no new evidence here to dissuade my opinion of piracy, what's close minded about that? I'm not close minded, the argument is rubbish.

    To say there has been an argument is an overstatement. Kalach is the only person who has contributed any significant piece of information
    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I have never argued against the validity of a free internet. But to say it should be unregulated in the sense that the undermining of other's work is legally protected is a load.
    It is because all your complaints are about piracy. And all your points go towards piracy. Which is pretty much like your copyright czars out there. All they can think about is piracy and the way they have made $$$ for all these years.

    They don't care what happens to the internet as long as piracy ends, however futile it is to completely stop it. An analogy for what they are attempting is to completely stop drug trading.

    They don't care about breaking anything cultural/social as long as they have complete control of everything. They don't care about invading your civil liberties. They don't care if they take complete control of everything you do as long as they stop piracy.

    You are looking at the individual trees instead of the forest just like these people. You don't see how much you can do in this environment because it seems foreign to you.

    Others have already pointed it out, if you can't change your "model" for this day in age, you might as well sink, but don't take those who have adapted to the internet with you because you won't adapt. Because, quite frankly, most internet companies learned to adapt or die in this changing environment.

    If all you care is money at the end of the day, it is all you care about. I don't know of what else to say to you if that is all you can see with piracy.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    It is because all your complaints are about piracy. And all your points go towards piracy. Which is pretty much like your copyright czars out there. All they can think about is piracy and the way they have made $$$ for all these years.

    They don't care what happens to the internet as long as piracy ends, however futile it is to completely stop it. An analogy for what they are attempting is to completely stop drug trading.

    They don't care about breaking anything cultural/social as long as they have complete control of everything. They don't care about invading your civil liberties. They don't care if they take complete control of everything you do as long as they stop piracy.

    You are looking at the individual trees instead of the forest just like these people. You don't see how much you can do in this environment because it seems foreign to you.

    Others have already pointed it out, if you can't change your "model" for this day in age, you might as well sink, but don't take those who have adapted to the internet with you because you won't adapt. Because, quite frankly, most internet companies learned to adapt or die in this changing environment.

    If all you care is money at the end of the day, it is all you care about. I don't know of what else to say to you if that is all you can see with piracy.

    I dont think you are willing to understand me and my claims.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I have never argued against the validity of a free internet. But to say it should be unregulated in the sense that the undermining of other's work is legally protected is a load.
    There's no way to regulate the internet to stop piracy that doesn't also include the loss of our freedoms. It's the typical freedom vs security choice.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #90
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I dont think you are willing to understand me and my claims.
    Trust me, I already know more than you take me for, otherwise I wouldn't have posted this thread topic. It is just you and Kalach have extreme points of view.

    From Vint Cerf. to Tim-Berners Lee
    From artists, programmers, and "videographers."
    From overblown government control to the blackhats and greyhats.

    You want to know why I am not looking at piracy on moral grounds other than what has been stated? In the words of my art professor, the difference between people who take art for art sake and those who take art for life sake. I wonder which of those two groups you and Kalach fall into.

    One of the criteria for success as an artist/programmer is to make a name of yourself. If no one knows who you are, you aren't really a successful artist/programmer (this is especially the case for people who work for businesses.) No matter how good your art is, if you aren't able to expose yourself on a mass scale, you aren't doing it properly. The internet has made mass-advertising on a whole new level. Back then, you would always have to go to an Art Museum and hope that a very rich man would be willing to buy your art and promote it. These days, you can just make a blog post of yourself on a popular site, and the people will just come to you as long as you keep making them. For those types of artist, many have learned to watermark their artwork, brand them, and expose them. They make art that people like and make money in the process. There is no middle man, there is no old boys network, there is no mass expenditure on ads just to make a name for yourself.

    Many people that promote their art this way do it on a commission basis, and people will buy them. Many programmers do something similar. If people want free programs, they know they need to support the programmers, many of them would be happy to donate for the person to keep updating.

    How many business have you heard leak some information so that it will draw the population's eye on that product?

    There are many ways this can help businesses, how many cartoon characters have you seen drawn and posted onto the internet. How many mickey mouses do you see on the internet and in real life?

    Two: Branding. Do you know why almost every single thing you buy has a brand on them? It isn't just there for show. When you take out your droid, you are exposing others to the brand you have on you. It is why we have the famous brands, businesses, and household items today. Google, Intel, Amazon, Coke, Pepsi, Nike, Pixar, Disney, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon, AT&T, Walmart, Target, Subway, Axe, etc. Branding on a mass sharing scale exposes you and your business on a huge scale that advertising only on T.V. and billboards cannot do. Think of all those youtube videos of music and background music. Think of all the people who ask what song it is and who is the artist singing it. A "good" case of what came out of youtube? Beiber. Many of these people made a name of themselves singing cover songs and then moving on to singing their own songs/videos. Now, you call this copyright infringement/piracy. I call this free advertisement. I get free advertisement that I did not need to pay for or spend an ounce of strength to get.

    The spread of information has promoted businesses, artists, programmers (blackhats, greyhats, and whitehats too) faster than you can imagine. It is only up to you if you want to use that resource for your own benefit or not or leave it to the government and corporations to promote you. Even just the uttering of my name is free advertisement.

    It is up to you to take the red pill or the blue pill.

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