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  1. #61
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    What ? Pirates in America ? I thought they would be only overthrowing Germany like the nazi party once did:

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #62
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Not every corporation is a money squandering entity that slaves its people into being mindless heathens -_-
    You're right, only the ones big enough to lobby Congress for special protection do that. Those are the corporations you're defending, the ones who want to use the government to force us to "buy" products from only them, where they can imprison us if we don't use them according to the "terms of use".

    If these companies want to figure out how to survive (profit) in the 21st century, they better figure out a way sell services rather than just products. That's the way the rest of the economy is going, but the media industry is fighting this with all of its might, and they're trying to destroy our freedom in process (SOPA/PIPA/CISPA/ACTA). And you're their willing pawn.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #63
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're right, only the ones big enough to lobby Congress for special protection do that. Those are the corporations you're defending, the ones who want to use the government to force us to "buy" products from only them, where they can imprison us if we don't use them according to the "terms of use".

    If these companies want to figure out how to survive (profit) in the 21st century, they better figure out a way sell services rather than just products. That's the way the rest of the economy is going, but the media industry is fighting this with all of its might, and they're trying to destroy our freedom in process (SOPA/PIPA/CISPA/ACTA). And you're their willing pawn.
    What is really funny is that every thing on TypoC could technically be cited for copyright/piracy.

    The emotes, the text, the formatting, the bbcode/html that is used behind the scenes, the images used by their members, MBTI, the enneagram, other tests, etc. Yes, most of you could technically be cited for copyright/piracy. That is how nuanced I am when it comes to these three issues and that is how far most of these companies are willing to go.

    Just visiting a site could force a copyright infringement because I'm receiving information to access the site.

    Just seeings ads pop up can be cited for copyright infringement (but hey, I don't see most of them anyways.)

    How far are these copyright czars willing to go? That is my question to you copyright czars. They might as well completely shut down the internet because of their greed.

    Moral or not, that is what they are willing to do, shut down the internet. That is your moral ground to keep copyright this extreme.

    I wouldn't be surprised if none of these people are aware of what has been happening in the U.S and the globe when it comes to the internet.

    I bet you most/none of you copyright czars looked into the Court case about Google Vs. Oracle.

    I bet you none of these copyright czars notice that we are close to turning our internet into something like China's Great Firewall.
    Last edited by Rail Tracer; 06-23-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're right, only the ones big enough to lobby Congress for special protection do that. Those are the corporations you're defending, the ones who want to use the government to force us to "buy" products from only them, where they can imprison us if we don't use them according to the "terms of use".

    If these companies want to figure out how to survive (profit) in the 21st century, they better figure out a way sell services rather than just products. That's the way the rest of the economy is going, but the media industry is fighting this with all of its might, and they're trying to destroy our freedom in process (SOPA/PIPA/CISPA/ACTA). And you're their willing pawn.

    Okay, so now you pay for something only granted temporarily when you used to be able to keep it? I don't understand how providing a service is better than a product when it comes to media.


    Examples:

    Zune Marketplace - Service - $15 a month, music is not legally yours, right to listen expires upon non-payment

    Apple iTunes - Product - $.99 per song, music is legally yours


    - Another analogy -


    World of Warcraft - Service - $15 per month, content is not legally yours, right to play expires upon non-payment, modification not allowed (we can talk about private servers if you want, kind of complicates my point)

    Warcraft 3 - Product - $60 (original retail), content is legally yours, modification is allowed



    Piracy ruined media, I understand what you're saying. Piracy is so easy, everyone's going to do it, there's no stopping it, change your business model, yadda yadda. I get it. I've gotten it.

    That doesn't mean I won't think people who pirate are thieving motherfuckers that do nothing but feel they are entitled to things they shouldn't be just because they can. And I DAMN sure wouldn't give legal amnesty to those who disrespectfully steal property of others.

  5. #65
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I doubt the moral arguments work. The Marxist principle that the value of a produced item lies in the labour used to create it is okay, but that still offers no particular tool for deciding how value may be exploited. You have ownership of what you create and therefore presumably the right to profit from what you make, but no clear indication of how much you may profit, and certainly no clear indication of why others may not profit from the object before you do. Indeed, in a world where copying to your harddrive is required before use can be made, exclusivity of ownership is tenuous at best. So... welcome to the cloud and your new service fee schedule.

    Dumb capitalists want to legislate against technological forces that are altering the market? That's competitive.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I doubt the moral arguments work. The Marxist principle that the value of a produced item lies in the labour used to create it is okay, but that still offers no particular tool for deciding how value may be exploited. You have ownership of what you create and therefore presumably the right to profit from what you make, but no clear indication of how much you may profit, and certainly no clear indication of why others may not profit from the object before you do. Indeed, in a world where copying to your harddrive is required before use can be made, exclusivity of ownership is tenuous at best. So... welcome to the cloud and your new service fee schedule.

    Dumb capitalists want to legislate against technological forces that are altering the market? That's competitive.

    At least you can agree with the argument I am making.

    Also, you're one of the few people that has actually made thought provoking statements, and for that I appreciate it. I never would have thought of my avatar as piracy, yet it is. I thought about the cost of such a photo, which surely must have been pennies... then I thought, well what if the person had to fly 4000 miles and trek through a jungle in the middle of winter to get this?

    Like I said, thank you.

  7. #67
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    One interesting, perhaps not especially balancing, aspect of just how easy the internet makes expropriation is it works both ways. On the one hand, media and technology companies lose their stuff when hackers and crackers and filesharers make it available. On the other, people like you and me lose out when any kind of intellectual work, be it written up thoughts in a blog or complex participation in the creation of some viral property, gets exploited by someone else.

    Mass marketing is easy and probably will never go away. But with the kind of monitoring and data management tools technology offers, particularly in areas like social media, the ham-fisted, blunt-ass, your-Dad-at-your-birthday-party-talking-to-your-friends kind of marketing the big companies still do on the internet is going to change. Crowd-sourcing, meme-watching, FORUM CREATION AND MAINTENANCE (!!!) are all areas where you have ready-made and growing communities, and if you join right, you can sell.

    That's where the new ownership is (:vomit: ), and authenticity is the key. If you're authentically part of what's going on, you're an owner, and you can sell.

    Needs more technology, though. There's a level of technology that allows huge communities to exist, like Facebook. But there's a level of technology further that allows huge communities to split up into membership communities and still be communicated with. When that happens I imagine ownership controls will become real again, and the genuine intuition of "I made it, I own it" can be honoured.

    Meanwhile, it's true, people who use my stuff without kicking something back to me are scum.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  8. #68
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    At least you can agree with the argument I am making.

    Also, you're one of the few people that has actually made thought provoking statements, and for that I appreciate it. I never would have thought of my avatar as piracy, yet it is. I thought about the cost of such a photo, which surely must have been pennies... then I thought, well what if the person had to fly 4000 miles and trek through a jungle in the middle of winter to get this?

    Like I said, thank you.
    Damnit, can we at least make a discussion that isn't about attacking? The moment we started talking about moral ground is the moment the thread got degraded.

    I swear, it immediately degraded to flaming/trolling/attacking. Quite frankly, if people want to talk about moral grounds, we should start looking at how our own country started before talking about moral grounds. We'd practically stole half the stuff we have on our government from the UK. We'd practically stole ideas from philosophers, even the Declaration of Independence is fraught with infringement. I don't see why the US government don't give credit where credit is due. If people here want to keep talking about morality, I can give you a history lesson on every account where government and companies have done copyright infringement, and got away with it.

    If I had this much attention talking about CISPA, dear god, the whole freaking world would know about it and they would take action with what the government does with their bills.

    Take it to the Philosophy and Religion forum.

  9. #69

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    OK. How did this conversation turn into whether or not pirating is bad or should be legal?

    I thought the "Pirate Party" was a derogatory term that this party decided to take on itself to reduce the power of its critics.

    We are really talking about things like this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-so...ate_technology
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality

    and opposition to things like this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_I...Protection_Act

    But if you equate:
    A) not wanting the government to be able to read your e-mails and listen in on your skype conversations without going through the steps they would have to in order to read your paper mail or tapping your phone,
    to:
    B) advocating for piracy
    ...well...whatever.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  10. #70
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    OK. How did this conversation turn into whether or not pirating is bad or should be legal?
    Welcome to the wonderfully wacky world of online foruming.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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