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  1. #81
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Thanks to the Enlightenment we have compulsory voting and no guns.

    It's plain to us that the USA is a violent gun culture that can't be bothered voting.
    America's vote was cast as it sailed farthest from the crown. America fights to defend its vote and its rights to defend. Failure to understand the nature and potential of people is terrible. Failure to decide, choose freedom despite a few bad criminals, and vote the conscience of freedom is nearsighted. It's also what causes greater terrible troubles in the relationship of people at large.

    A suggestion would be to just not worry about America. Do you vote here?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
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  2. #82
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    And who the fuck's "we"?!?!
    The Aussies.
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  3. #83
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think I would like to machine shop build my own firearms from scratch and if they were as good as a factory made article then I could be really proud. Pretty sure I'd be breaking a whole heap of laws if I did though.

    I remember watching a movie with Jimmy Stuart in it and he was working on a new mechanism for a carbine, he may have been set up or ripped off, the character I mean, because he wound up in jail and still got contracts to work it out in prison. I think it was based on a true story.

  4. #84
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think I would like to machine shop build my own firearms from scratch and if they were as good as a factory made article then I could be really proud. Pretty sure I'd be breaking a whole heap of laws if I did though.

    I remember watching a movie with Jimmy Stuart in it and he was working on a new mechanism for a carbine, he may have been set up or ripped off, the character I mean, because he wound up in jail and still got contracts to work it out in prison. I think it was based on a true story.
    I think that is so hot. I'm into making things too. I think it takes a long time to make a gun. What about the wood parts? Or would you use composite or something else? Pics?
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  5. #85
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    1. It undercuts the intention of the writers of the constitution.

    ... the authors intended for the populace to have enough firepower to deter a government takeover. I’m not advocating for privatization of nukes, but to arbitrarily say that law-abiding civilians should be restricted from owning high-powered firearms and instead they should all be in the hands of the government makes the intent of the 2nd amendment null and void. When the constitution was written you’re right, they had one shot muskets. In other words, the citizenry had the same caliber of weaponry as the military/government did. The weaponry has changed – the principles have not...
    On this point, the generation who built those ideas also pre-supposed the existence of no permanent national U.S. Army, or at the most only a very small one. A U.S. Army that calls up the personnel needed when and if war breaks out, or rebellion or whatnot. So the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution I think only makes total sense if this kind of system is implemented in the government alongside it. Without it, there's bound to be some inconsistency.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    On this point, the generation who built those ideas also pre-supposed the existence of no permanent national U.S. Army, or at the most only a very small one. A U.S. Army that calls up the personnel needed when and if war breaks out, or rebellion or whatnot. So the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution I think only makes total sense if this kind of system is implemented in the government alongside it. Without it, there's bound to be some inconsistency.
    Can you elaborate a little more on what you mean by inconsistency - not quite sure I follow.

  7. #87
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Can you elaborate a little more on what you mean by inconsistency - not quite sure I follow.
    For example, "What if the government were to mobilize an armored division against a citizen uprising? That proves the unfair balance in firepower." Which leads to, "So you're saying citizens have the right to own and operate tanks?" The original idea was that the government shouldn't have armored divisions just sitting around in peacetime. There would be none, and if war called, the government would ask for citizens to join the army and train them in tank use. Or, if a rebellion threatens, the government might ask citizens to join the army and put down the rebellion--I guess we would see how noble the cause of the rebellion is by whether or not people would want to join the military in order to stamp it out.

    Honestly, I don't think I sealed up all the logical leaks with this explanation, such as the nuclear question, but it brings it closer to a system that consistently makes sense.

    But also, you can see that such an idea would be considered "strange" in the way we think of our military's role today. The system we have today is part Constitution-based (veneration for the 2nd Amendment), part developed away from the Constitution (a large permanent U.S. military), and we attempt to weave it all together into one coherent system. It's no wonder we're confused about how to handle it.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 06-25-2012 at 03:35 AM. Reason: context in this thread
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  8. #88
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I see no reason why anyone should not be allowed by law to own a gun.

    Governments are created by their people, with the purpose of preserving collective harmony. They should serve this purpose, and in order to function optimally they should be created and destroyed accordingly by the people. To preserve collective harmony, no one group should oppress any other. This requires a balance of power. Since the group is made up of individuals, each individual should be empowered and participate in this balance of power.

    This means that the military/police should not oppress their citizens, which means the citizens should be able to defend themselves. QED

    This is of course, an ideal situation; most often it will not be the case, but being an ideal it is what people should strive to be the closest to as much of the time as possible.

    Fe + Ti

    As for myself, I would like to own one, but I don't yet because they're expensive. Maybe when I get back from Japan at the end of spring semester I can start saving for one. I took a rifle shooting class with my dad when I was in high school and got to the level of sharpshooter.

  9. #89
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    you can outlaw guns but people are still going to own them and keep them in their homes or make garage guns. i personally dont care for guns but because i like having some kind of protection and im bored, i m trying to get creative and make a elective glove with some knuckle blasters on it. for fun.

    maybe make my own flying toy that shoots silly string.
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  10. #90
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar7 View Post
    A suggestion would be to just not worry about America. Do you vote here?
    I would be delighted not to worry about America (the USA) if you would remove your military bases from Australian soil, if you would take your armed Marines home to America from Darwin, if you would stop using Australian soil as a bombing range for your B-52 bombers, if you would keep your nuclear submarines and your nuclear aircraft carriers out of Australian ports, and if you would stop stationing your fighter planes in our airports.

    I would be pleased if American (USA) military personel were subject to Australian Law in Australia. And I would be pleased if America followed the example of civilized countries and joined the Internationa Criminal Court (ICC).

    I would be happy not to worry about America (the USA) if you would keep your National Rifle Association at home, if you would stop sending your propaganda movies from Hollywood, and if you would stop sending your pornography from California.

    I would be smiling if the Vice-President of America (the USA) would stop calling our journalist, Julian Assange, a terrorist. I would be smiling if you had not empanelled a Grand Jury in a dormitory suburb of the CIA in Virginia to bring down a secret Indictment of Julian Assange, a journalist. I would be smiling if you would cease carrying out Rendition, particularly attempting to carry out Rendition of Julian Assange from Sweden to the USA where he will receive 'enhanced' interrogation leading to the death penalty for espionage.

    And I would be pleased if you would follow Australia's example and get your banking system in order.

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