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  1. #61
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    In charge of the domestic realm? Yes, I don't think anyone would argue with that. That's been true forever (if you've read Uncle Tom's Cabin, it's a major theme in the novel and many others). Every commercial that shows a woman in a romantic relationship with her mop is a cue that that's what she's supposed to be concerned with. I reject that notion because I give exactly no fucks about mopping.
    I would argue of popular culture which is why advertisers have such a hard time reaching men in their 20s to early 30s (ie before they are married). They all fled to the internet, porn, and video games to escape : ) ) The "dumb husband" bullshit and so forth you noted in your other thread.

    Note: while many women may not like this stereotype either it displays economic power. Especially now that 6 women graduate from college for every 5 men that do.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #62
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This depends upon the scope of your analysis. There are rules that can harm individuals, while also being beneficial to the society, and vice versa. One example is no-fault divorce, which I believe has been terribly destructive for society, but beneficial for many individuals.
    Of course, and then you have the argument for whether the impact on society should trump the impact on individuals. In general, I would tend to favour the impact on individuals, since it's A) FAR easier to accurately predict B) far less susceptible to implausible (but hard to falsify) scare tactics used to further an agenda and C) I don't really trust the ability of the state to accurately predict the effect of anything on society as a whole, nor its desire to report on things without bias even if it could accurately predict them.

    But yes, definitely it's important to think about both. I'm not sure I agree with you that no-fault divorce is bad for society, if you include things like the long-term impact on children growing up in abusive or unloving families, but that's even more off-topic than the current discussion.
    -end of thread-

  3. #63
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I would argue of popular culture which is why advertisers have such a hard time reaching men in their 20s to early 30s (ie before they are married). They all fled to the internet, porn, and video games to escape : ) ) The "dumb husband" bullshit and so forth you noted in your other thread.

    Note: while many women may not like this stereotype either it displays economic power. Especially now that 6 women graduate from college for every 5 men that do.
    Are there more female than male writers, directors and producers of popular culture?

    (Actors etc don't really count since they don't have much input on the content.)
    -end of thread-

  4. #64
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Are there more female than male writers, directors and producers of popular culture?

    (Actors etc don't really count since they don't have much input on the content.)
    I hear what you're saying, but what I think matters more is who is the content being made -for- and for what purpose. From the perspective of those making the content their goal is to satisfy the largest audience possible/most lucrative audience. It's not even about men or women in INTENT, just in happenstance. Intention does matter of course, but so do structuralized power imbalances as many feminists themselves point out. I for one would gladly trade more female directors for less negative male stereotypes on television.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #65
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I hear what you're saying, but what I think matters more is who is the content being made -for- and for what purpose. From the perspective of those making the content their goal is to satisfy the largest audience possible/most lucrative audience. It's not even about men or women in INTENT, just in happenstance. Intention does matter of course, but so do structuralized power imbalances as many feminists themselves point out. I for one would gladly trade more female directors for less negative male stereotypes on television.
    Is it really power to be in the group people want to manipulate the most?

    (And that's assuming this is even true - I'd suspect that 18-29 males are a pretty damn tempting target for advertisers of things which are not household cleaning products, which let's face it are not major factors in the consumer market. Those bemoaned video games sell for a lot more than a mop)
    -end of thread-

  6. #66
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Of course, and then you have the argument for whether the impact on society should trump the impact on individuals. In general, I would tend to favour the impact on individuals, since it's A) FAR easier to accurately predict B) far less susceptible to implausible (but hard to falsify) scare tactics used to further an agenda and C) I don't really trust the ability of the state to accurately predict the effect of anything on society as a whole, nor its desire to report on things without bias even if it could accurately predict them.
    A. I disagree that it's easier to predict, unless you use the most simple, narrow criteria.
    B. See A.
    C. This is bullshit. The state has been doing this for as long as it has had the power and it's not about to stop now. But I think I know why you don't want the state to touch anything in this particular area.

    But yes, definitely it's important to think about both. I'm not sure I agree with you that no-fault divorce is bad for society, if you include things like the long-term impact on children growing up in abusive or unloving families, but that's even more off-topic than the current discussion.
    You seem to be framing this response as though the choices are only no-fault divorce or no divorce. There are other options, including, but not limited to, mutual consent.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #67
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    A. I disagree that it's easier to predict, unless you use the most simple, narrow criteria.
    B. See A.
    C. This is bullshit. The state has been doing this for as long as it has had the power and it's not about to stop now. But I think I know why you don't want the state to touch anything in this particular area.
    I'm not even sure I had anything specific in mind, other than the knowledge that government generally aims to hold onto power above all else. "this particular area" = sexual assault, orr...? Why don't you enlighten me as to what I'm trying to protect?

    You seem to be framing this response as though the choices are only no-fault divorce or no divorce. There are other options, including, but not limited to, mutual consent.
    Alright - what about no-fault divorce specifically do you think is harming society, presuming we keep all other forms of divorce?
    -end of thread-

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Is it really power to be in the group people want to manipulate the most?

    (And that's assuming this is even true - I'd suspect that 18-29 males are a pretty damn tempting target for advertisers of things which are not household cleaning products, which let's face it are not major factors in the consumer market. Those bemoaned video games sell for a lot more than a mop)
    And a lot less than manolo blahnik's.

  9. #69
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And a lot less than manolo blahnik's.
    Are you under the impression that all (or most, or even that many) women own a pair of Manolos? I wouldn't put those torture devices on my feet even if they paid me. I only know what they are because of Sex and the City, anyway.

    Also, I've never seen a commercial for Manolos.

  10. #70
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And a lot less than manolo blahnik's.
    Yep, 18-29 females are also a choice market (although I know zero women who own a pair of those, and almost every guy my age owns hundreds or in a few cases, thousands of dollars worth of video games).

    I'm just saying I don't think housewives have a monopoly on buying stuff. They might buy more than a (stereotypical) husband and more than minor children, but they have way less free income to waste than young single people with their first real-money jobs and not enough commitments to spend it on.
    -end of thread-

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