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  1. #51
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Not all women are like this.

    Not all of any class of people are like anything.

    What I'm trying to understand, is why has the whole henpecked man trope persisted even as we have evolved beyond that understanding of gender interactions.
    I think a lot of people like having defined gender roles for whatever reason, and it's become socially unacceptable (mostly) to persist with the "man does, woman supports" thing so it's been flipped on its side. Another part of it is intended as humour - like "har har, usually men are strong leaders but look at how helpless this guy is, he's even being told what to do by a woman!". And like most TV stereotypes, there is an element of truth - I see this kind of thing pretty commonly in my more traditionally-minded female friends, even though my friends tend to be liberal. Like "rah rah girl power, I deserve to be treated like a princess, guys r dum"

    Really though I'm not sure why it's so common these days. What I am sure about is that I don't like it, and what I'm equally sure about is that "father knows best" idea isn't any better, for me. I think both types of gender roles can be harmful by pushing the idea that you need to behave like that whether or not it makes you happy. But it seems like a lot of people are drawn to either type of gender roles, with some overlap between them (i.e. male with dominant posturing, but female runs the show), and are happy in those relationships, and a lot of other people try to avoid either scenario.
    -end of thread-

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This is probably fodder for another thread, but I don't see what's wrong with saying "every child is special." Every child IS special. That doesn't mean "good at everything." But fuck yes, I'm going to figure out what each of my kids IS good at and encourage the fuck out of it. We don't do celebrations though, because I don't really like being around people all that much.
    My problem is the tendency to coddle kids to the point that we don't let kids be kids anymore.

    Kids fall down, get scraped knees, and occasionally fail. The earlier they learn to accept and move past the occasional failure the better.

    Also, what is wrong with dodge ball? Dodge ball is awesome. I always loved it as a kid and I wasn't even good at it.

  3. #53
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Women really are in charge. Or rather, MOTHERS are. Advertising targets women because up to 70% of retail purchases are decided by women. Lazy men who leave "domestic tasks" to their wives inadvertently increased their power. This is why "everything creates its opposite" like how corporations fucked over employees for so long that now they are just beginning to feel the backlash that has been building up for over 30 years.
    In charge of the domestic realm? Yes, I don't think anyone would argue with that. That's been true forever (if you've read Uncle Tom's Cabin, it's a major theme in the novel and many others). Every commercial that shows a woman in a romantic relationship with her mop is a cue that that's what she's supposed to be concerned with. I reject that notion because I give exactly no fucks about mopping.

  4. #54
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    No, and IMO the popular perception of feminism isn't accurate, and is a problem.
    + 1

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  5. #55
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    My problem is the tendency to coddle kids to the point that we don't let kids be kids anymore.

    Kids fall down, get scraped knees, and occasionally fail. The earlier they learn to accept and move past the occasional failure the better.

    Also, what is wrong with dodgeball. Dodgeball is awesome. I always loved it as a kid and I wasn't even good at it.
    I don't disagree with any of this, except I hated dodgeball. Then again, I hated all gym class and participated as little as possible.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Women really are in charge. Or rather, MOTHERS are. Advertising targets women because up to 70% of retail purchases are decided by women. Lazy men who leave "domestic tasks" to their wives inadvertently increased their power. This is why "everything creates its opposite" like how corporations fucked over employees for so long that now they are just beginning to feel the backlash that has been building up for over 30 years.



    You're thinking about this individually under today's circumstances with people similar to yourself. You're not thinking about the hundreds of thousands of years where we were monkeys and an "argument" would result in a beating (at the least). If you don't believe in evolution, then look at cultures like russia where domestic violence is still quite common.
    Well we aren't in Russia, or in pre history now are we.

  7. #57

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    The public conversation is failing to distinguish between "special" in general (which really means special to some and being of value) and being the exception to the rule --on both the child-raising and gender-equality fronts.

    We all have value, and it doesn't have to hinge upon assuming in order for the individual to have value, others must have less/I must have more for it to be true.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  8. #58
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I think both types of gender roles can be harmful by pushing the idea that you need to behave like that whether or not it makes you happy.
    This depends upon the scope of your analysis. There are rules that can harm individuals, while also being beneficial to the society, and vice versa. One example is no-fault divorce, which I believe has been terribly destructive for society, but beneficial for many individuals.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This depends upon the scope of your analysis. There are rules that can harm individuals and be beneficial to the society, and vice versa. One example is no-fault divorce, which I believe has been terribly destructive for society, but beneficial for many individuals.
    I actually kind of agree on the no fault divorce thing.

    It's too easy to break that commitment.

  10. #60
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    [youtube="a7vtyheqPVU"]Men in commercials[/youtube]

    More of that.

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