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  1. #31

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    @DiscoBiscuit Seen this?

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4iHCfuRWIQ"]Bill Maher: Women's Values are American Values[/YOUTUBE]

    I would say that the feminine values are now the values of America; sensitivity is more important than truth; feelings are more important than facts; commitment is more important than individuality; children are more important than people; safety is more important than fun. I always hear women say, "Y'know, married men live longer." Uh, yes, and an indoor cat...also...lives longer. It's a fur-ball with a broken spirit that can only look out on a world it will never enjoy, but it does, technically, live longer.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  2. #32
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    God I hate that guy.

  3. #33
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    If you argue with a woman I think it is seen as a form of epistemic violence and they are taken aback by it fearing it to be indicative of a physically abusive personality.

    That was @DiscoBiscuit
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    @DiscoBiscuit Seen this?

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4iHCfuRWIQ"]Bill Maher: Women's Values are American Values[/YOUTUBE]
    One of the very few things of his that I like.

    I saw that years ago, probably when it first came out.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    One of the very few things of his that I like.

    I saw that years ago, probably when it first came out.
    Yup. I loved that skit. I'm not always in agreement with Maher, but he's onto it here.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  6. #36
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    On TV.

    Generally the media.

    But also interpersonally. I've encountered plenty of women who are taken aback when I argue with them, and don't just let them win b/c they're women.

    Hell... I love my mom to death, but I still have to let her win.
    This is what happens when you profess to wanting a "traditional woman". They tend to come with many "traditional women" stereotypes. A very common stereotype is the "man plays the dominant role, and woman runs the scenes from behind" - which is where you get the "har har, women always need to be right" trope.

    Date someone who believes in real gender equality, and she will be far less likely to expect you to conform to gender roles, whether they're of the "man knows best" variety or the "henpecked husband" variety - these are just two sides of the same coin. I prefer to reject that coin entirely and treat people like people instead of like walking sex organs, but that's just me, of course.
    -end of thread-

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I'm not even sure the statistics are being purposefully distorted. I think this idea is still so deeply ingrained (women passive, men active) that even sociological research still reflects it.
    I really doubt this is purposeful distortion. My thinking is along the same lines as yours.

    In fact, if I had not read typhonblue's article (the one in the OP) before looking at the CDC report, I probably would have never been aware of the "forced-to-penetrate" form of sexual violence, and completely ignored it while reading the report...furthermore, if someone had mentioned that as a category to me, I would have expected the prevalence to be rather small compared to prevalence of rape.

    I don't think it is right to dismiss some people suffering just because it is uncommon, but I would have thought it was not common for a man to be forced to penetrate a female.

    This is not to say that I have completely bought into typhonblue's argument. For instance, I believe this category includes alcohol induced lack of judgement (as does rape), and I am not sure how much is made up by that.

    But it does give me somethings to think about.

    Namely, why does the CDC categorize "forced-to-penetrate" as a different from rape?

    Because some of the main conclusions of the CDC that would affect resource allocation or policy (Like: women are raped most often by intimate former/current partners while men by acquaintances) would also not hold true.

    If you included "forced-to-penetrate" as rape, then the patterns for male and female victimhood and perpetration would be very similar, and you would actually have fewer phenomena to explain.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    This is what happens when you profess to wanting a "traditional women". They tend to come with many "traditional women" stereotypes.

    Date someone who believes in real gender equality, and she will be far less likely to expect you to conform to gender roles, whether they're of the "man knows best" variety or the "henpecked husband" variety - these are just two sides of the same coin. I prefer to reject that coin entirely and treat people like people instead of like walking sex organs, but that's just me, of course.


    The Maher bit is just repulsive to me. I'm very feminine but those are not MY values.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Yup. I loved that skit. I'm not always in agreement with Maher, but he's onto it here.
    The delivery may be a little harsh for more delicate sensibilities, but it's the point behind it that's more important.

    How did this just come to be accepted generally?

    What's wrong with rough sports, or games, or with real competition where there's a winner and a loser.

    It pissed me off every time someone was awarded just for showing up while I was a child.

  10. #40
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    This is what happens when you profess to wanting a "traditional woman". They tend to come with many "traditional women" stereotypes. A very common stereotype is the "man plays the dominant role, and woman runs the scenes from behind" - which is where you get the "har har, women always need to be right" trope.

    Date someone who believes in real gender equality, and she will be far less likely to expect you to conform to gender roles, whether they're of the "man knows best" variety or the "henpecked husband" variety - these are just two sides of the same coin. I prefer to reject that coin entirely and treat people like people instead of like walking sex organs, but that's just me, of course.
    Too bad that is not the only difference between them. Traits tend to flock together in groups. Everything is a cost-benefit tradeoff and people have to make their choices.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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