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  1. #211
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ts-we-distrust

    Thankfully for me, I can hide it or fake it when necessary.
    "Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate."

    That's not bad!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #212
    Senior Member Circle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'm a white male. If I had any male privilege or white privilege at all, I would be... MY BOSS! Because I sure as hell wouldn't be me anymore in that case. But my white male boss has all the privileges society can possibly grant without actually making him overlord of the universe.
    White privilege or male privilege is possibly difficult for you to see due to your perspective as a white male. The following definition may be helpful.

    "White privilege may be defined as the "unearned advantages of being White in a racially stratified society".

    We do know that racism is a problem in American society and societies throughout the world. If one is honest, one has to admit there are certain advantages to being white and male.

  3. #213
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I think "privilege" evokes images of sipping tea with your pinky out, or having someone peel grapes for you. That is not what it means in this context (and maybe we DO need a new word for it). I asked about this in my thread on racism from awhile back. For parts of my childhood I grew up poor too (dumpster yogurt, yum) but if everything about my childhood had been the same except I were black, chances are pretty good that there would have been other struggles in addition to the very real ones we had.

  4. #214
    Senior Member Circle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think "privilege" evokes images of sipping tea with your pinky out, or having someone peel grapes for you. That is not what it means in this context (and maybe we DO need a new word for it). I asked about this in my thread on racism from awhile back. I grew up poor too (dumpster yogurt, yum) but if everything about my childhood had been the same except I were black, chances are pretty good that there would have been other struggles in addition to the very real ones we had.
    For me it evokes the image of a Kentucky Derby party. White people with mint juleps and straw hats, flashing their flawless smiles and saying "I declare!" as they take pick appetizers off a platter carried by a young, black man in a white tuxedo.

  5. #215
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think "privilege" evokes images of sipping tea with your pinky out, or having someone peel grapes for you. That is not what it means in this context (and maybe we DO need a new word for it). I asked about this in my thread on racism from awhile back. I grew up poor too (dumpster yogurt, yum) but if everything about my childhood had been the same except I were black, chances are pretty good that there would have been other struggles in addition to the very real ones we had.
    The difference would have been negligible. I grew up in the exurbs in the Midwest in an area that wasn't really racist. There weren't many black kids at my school(s), but there were a couple I socialized with throughout my childhood and they seemed to do just as well as the white kids (they weren't dropping out, on drugs, or anything like that). They undoubtedly had more money than my family growing up. The area I lived in was populated by a large number of middle-class evangelical Christians.

    Am I privileged for having been fortunate enough to grow up in a low-crime, middle-class area where race really wasn't much of an issue? What kind of privilege would that be? Region privilege? Geographical privilege?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #216
    Senior Member Circle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The difference would have been negligible. I grew up in the exurbs in the Midwest in an area that wasn't really racist. There weren't many black kids at my school(s), but there were a couple I socialized with throughout my childhood and they seemed to do just as well as the white kids (they weren't dropping out, on drugs, or anything like that). They undoubtedly had more money than my family growing up.
    I think for low-income, middle-class whites this discussion is difficult because it implies advantage, which can be at odds with the disenfranchisement felt at being low-income. I don't think anyone is saying you're responsible for racism or that you're not entitled to your experience and hardship. Yet, there are benefits to being white that are, really, beyond dispute.

  7. #217
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    I think for low-income, middle-class whites this discussion is difficult because it implies advantage, which can be at odds with the disenfranchisement felt at being low-income. I don't think anyone is saying you're responsible for racism or that you're not entitled to your experience and hardship. Yet, there are benefits to being white that are, really, beyond dispute.
    Sure there are, but those benefits weren't tangible where I lived. Maybe if I had lived in Washington DC it would have been different, but applying this concept like a blanket across the entire nation seems crude, at best. Where I grew up, it was far, far more important that you were a "good Christian" than anything else.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #218
    Senior Member Circle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Sure there are, but those benefits weren't tangible where I lived. Maybe if I had lived in Washington DC it would have been different, but applying this concept like a blanket seems crude, at best.
    Yes, but accepting this statement as relevant depends on attributing significance to your anecdotal experiences. Even if you lived in a racially homogenous zone of harmony and accord, it does not negate the existence of advantage based on race, class, or gender.

  9. #219
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    Yes, but accepting this statement as relevant depends on attributing significance to your anecdotal experiences. Even if you lived in a racially homogenous zone of harmony and accord, it does not negate the existence of advantage based on race, class, or gender.
    Advantage compared to what? Someone living in Somalia? You have to have some practical criteria, otherwise the concept is meaningless and just ends up causing animosity.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Advantage compared to what? Someone living in Somalia? You have to have some practical criteria, otherwise the concept is meaningless and just ends up causing animosity.
    Generally, we discuss the cultural context we exist in, in our case, American culture. Somalis are likely to have their own questions of race that have little to do with American slavery, the Civil Rights movement, Jim Crow, the wars with Mexico, et cetera.

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