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  1. #201
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I guess I am the Satan many on this site were hoping I would turn out to be.

    Party for my downfall would you.
    I can't be who I am meant to be 'til you are, nor you until I am! We'll keep at it. I don't think you're Satan. I just disagree with you.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #202
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Oh, I'm sure you have some oppression. Everybody's got some! I personally have white privilege, cisgender privilege, relative social class privilege, straight(ish) privilege, and Christian privilege. I usually wear cargo pants so that I have enough pockets.
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ts-we-distrust

    Thankfully for me, I can hide it or fake it when necessary.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #203
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If you want to get all in a huff...
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'm not going to be able to continue contributing in this thread without going ape shit.
    This is such an interesting juxtaposition.
    -end of thread-

  4. #204
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ts-we-distrust

    Thankfully for me, I can hide it or fake it when necessary.
    ::nods:: That's real. And shitty.



    In the end (not that this is the end) for me, even though I believe that there are systems of advantage and disadvantage that impact us all, I am really not angry at any group and certainly not angry at any person. I don't think anybody did it. It's just a mess that we all are damaged by and have to negotiate and talk about and figure out ways around. I think an important aspect of figuring it out is having these kinds of conversations and butting up against our discomforts. I know that the term "male privilege" is provacative and at times alienating--and I think that sometimes it's a good discomfort (I've faced some of that with my Christian privilege and white privilege lately, but I think it moved me forward a bit). Maybe I should take DB's point about a new term for male privilege (which maybe does sound more indicting than I mean it), but it's hard when we're not all really in agreement about whether systems of advantage/disadvantage even exist.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    This is such an interesting juxtaposition.
    Oh wow.

    We found the first hypocrit in the history of the human race.

    No one's perfect... me less so than most.

  6. #206
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    I think it's hard to discuss this subject without a working definition of privilege. For me, privilege is the belief or expectation, by a person, that he or she will experience the leniency and trust afforded to members of a hegemonic in-group by other members of that group, rather than the suspicion, disregard and increased violence directed toward members of a subaltern out-group. Class privilege is the clearest example of this, along with its close associate, racial privilege. All are expressions of rankism.

    Gender dynamics, on the other hand, are a bit too complex to fit within the privilege model, in my opinion. However, there are aspects of that model that certainly apply.

  7. #207
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I know that the term "male privilege" is provacative and at times alienating--and I think that sometimes it's a good discomfort (I've faced some of that with my Christian privilege and white privilege lately, but I think it moved me forward a bit). Maybe I should take DB's point about a new term for male privilege (which maybe does sound more indicting than I mean it), but it's hard when we're not all really in agreement about whether systems of advantage/disadvantage even exist.
    I don't know if the problem is that the term itself is provocative and alienating. I think that much of the umbrage that many men take with the term is that it has been used as a bludgeon to shame men when they talk about gender dynamics, and also as a thought-terminating cliche when someone grows uncomfortable with the direction of conversation.

  8. #208
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    In the end (not that this is the end) for me, even though I believe that there are systems of advantage and disadvantage that impact us all, I am really not angry at any group and certainly not angry at any person. I don't think anybody did it. It's just a mess that we all are damaged by and have to negotiate and talk about and figure out ways around. I think an important aspect of figuring it out is having these kinds of conversations and butting up against our discomforts. I know that the term "male privilege" is provacative and at times alienating--and I think that sometimes it's a good discomfort (I've faced some of that with my Christian privilege and white privilege lately, but I think it moved me forward a bit). Maybe I should take DB's point about a new term for male privilege (which maybe does sound more indicting than I mean it), but it's hard when we're not all really in agreement about whether systems of advantage/disadvantage even exist.
    As a white male who grew up poor and has had to fight tooth-and-nail for every little thing I've been able to get in my life, it's really frustrating to hear terms like white and male privilege thrown around. I don't doubt that some people experience them (guys like Mitt Romney), but I haven't. It's very presumptuous and offensive when someone assumes that you must have experienced privilege and you "just don't see it" when that person has absolutely no idea what type of life you have lived. I know that many other white males feel this way as well because there are a lot of us who really haven't experienced this privilege that is so often thrown in our collective faces.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #209
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Between all of my male privilege and white privilege, I'm running out of places to store it all.
    I'm a white male. If I had any male privilege or white privilege at all, I would be... MY BOSS! Because I sure as hell wouldn't be me anymore in that case. But my white male boss has all the privileges society can possibly grant without actually making him overlord of the universe.

    Feminism is a bunch of nonsense.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #210
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    As a white male who grew up poor and has had to fight tooth-and-nail for every little thing I've been able to get in my life, it's really frustrating to hear terms like white and male privilege thrown around. I don't doubt that some people experience them (guys like Mitt Romney), but I haven't. It's very presumptuous and offensive when someone assumes that you must have experienced privilege and you "just don't see it" when that person has absolutely no idea what type of life you have lived. I know that many other white males feel this way as well because there are a lot of us who really haven't experienced this privilege that is so often thrown in our collective faces.
    Privilege? What's that?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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