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  1. #31
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Hmmm. Call it rationalization, but I think that the bombings were better than the alternative. I read somewhere that the projected death toll for an invasion of Japan was in the millions, and what happened at Iwo Jima leads me to believe that this is the truth. Could there have been a better course of action? Maybe, but if there was, we didn't know of it. Plus, I do think that on some level it was a good thing that we used nuclear weapons for the first time when they were still relatively weak. Can you imagine if the first nuclear weapon ever deployed in combat was something like the AN602 or some kind of MIRV based weapon?

    But Fluffywolf kind of summed it up here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Well, humans just suck I guess.
    ...

  2. #32

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    I tend to agree with those who see the bombings as a necessary evil. If it's true that this was the only way to avoid an invasion and that an invasion would have cost many more lives, then I must chalk it up to the best choice among several horrible choices. For those who think otherwise, I suggest they are trading actual deaths for hypothetical deaths, as inevitable as those hypothetical deaths may have been.

    The one thing I never understand, however, is why Nagasaki was necessary. Unless someone more knowledgeable can provide a reason, I don't see why we could not have let the horror of Hiroshima sink in for a while and press for a surrender.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  3. #33
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I had a teacher read us stories about the op's topic. I had nightmares for years about radiation poisoning and what not. Still do occasionally. To say I was affected deeply is an understatement.
    It disturbs me to the core.
    I hope no-one is faced with that choice again.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I tend to agree with those who see the bombings as a necessary evil. If it's true that this was the only way to avoid an invasion and that an invasion would have cost many more lives, then I must chalk it up to the best choice among several horrible choices. For those who think otherwise, I suggest they are trading actual deaths for hypothetical deaths, as inevitable as those hypothetical deaths may have been.

    The one thing I never understand, however, is why Nagasaki was necessary. Unless someone more knowledgeable can provide a reason, I don't see why we could not have let the horror of Hiroshima sink in for a while and press for a surrender.

    We only possessed two functioning bombs, the rest would not be ready for a while, and we didn't want them calling our bluff. They needed to feel like in three months Japan would be glass.


    I haven't really chimed in with my opinion, but what's left to be said? It saved even a single American the tragedy of death during battle. It demonstrated to the world that we are a force to be reckoned, and as fluffywolf points out was used at a time when nuclear retaliation were impossible.


    Overall.... I'd say a wise decision. The Japanese had their chance and fair warning.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Right. Sounds like know how to end a World War without violence. Too bad you weren't running the place in the 1940s.
    Well, you know that if women ran the world there would be no war.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    No, at best it was a reason - not a particularly good one, IMO - and at worst a lie employed for propaganda purposes.
    The reasoning was sound, but in the initial case, necessarily based on some assumption and speculation, since it compared two future actions. Even the benefit of hindsight shows us only what happened in the course we took. There may be good reasons and corroborating evidence to suggest that deaths would have been higher from continued conventional war, but we cannot know for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, you know that if women ran the world there would be no war.
    But there would be endless committee work and too much gratuitous social events/mandatory fun.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #37
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The debt of Japan is now an unimaginable 200% of Gross Domestic Product.

    And on top of this Japan is failing to reproduce itself due to drastically falling birth rates.

    And even though the Japanese population is shrinking, but still remain a first world country, Japan is determined to maintain its racial purity by refusing to let immigrants into Japan and by refusing to take refugees.

    And although Germany had thoroughly and bravely admitted, repented and paid compensation for war crimes, Japan has failed to do the same.
    Seriously. Evolved indeed.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, you know that if women ran the world there would be no war.

    I hate when people say this.

    -_-

  9. #39
    Riva
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    How strange it is that the Japanese have changed so much since the world war.

    One could only wonder whether they have changed for real or the circumstances have changed.

    Do people change or is it only the circumstances that change?
    Last edited by Riva; 06-20-2012 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Didn't know 'Jap' was used as an insult. Thank you Qlip.

  10. #40
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    It was a horrific, deplorable action viewed by today's mores.. with some very strange and even positive results. I take the ultimate P view and see it as a case where good things can happen from bad actions and infer visa versa. The universe seems like a senseless place.

    @Riva FYI, the abbreviation 'Jap' is considered derogatory in American English.

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