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  1. #101
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Beyond the need to end the war with Japan, there were some very important foreign policy reasons to drop the bombs.

    Without the use of those weapons at the end of WWII the power dynamics of the Cold War may have ended up looking very different.
    And yet nobody even knew that the bombs would go off as planned. Isn't it amazing how visionary a president Truman was? It's as if he had predicted the events of the next 50 years.

    No, all you can say in reality is that Truman wanted to end the war with Japan, an enemy who swore to fight down to the last man, woman, and child.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #102
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's the thing - I don't think US hegemony in the late 20th Century was a good thing, as it led to the establishment of the military-industrial complex, the perpetual war economy, and our massive "defense" budget.
    I recognize all that, including the paragraph I snipped, as Marxist rhetoric.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    An embargo is still an act of war by international law. Given Japan's status as an importer nation, and that both the US and Japan had war plans for this exact situation, both sides knew exactly what they were getting themselves into.
    Well then you reap what you sow.

    That has no bearing on the Pacific War, particularly when it was not a motivation for the Allies in Europe.
    When it turned into a world war and the US got involved, there had to be a statement made, that this kind of war could never happen again. That those that condone this kind of global destabilization must be sent a message.

    If that kind of war happens again given levels of proliferation, it may well be the end of us.

    Yet you talk about your disgust with the corporate takeover of American politics. Do you fail to see that the perpetual war state is one of the primary contributors to this process? That defense and its ancillary industries receive the largest direct transfers of public wealth?
    I don't fail to see the link, but I also don't fail to see the technological advancements due to military R&D either. And I know that that cannot be a reason to just keep sending a blank check every year to the pentagon. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water on this. There are huge wastes of spending in the military, and with good people at the helm, we can manage a rethink of how to spend funds efficiently while still maintaining the military capability to meet the global defense role that is actively asked of us by ally nations abroad.

    I'm not concerned with alternative history. I'm concerned with what this process has done to the soul of our country.
    And I'm not as concerned. My concern for that soul tainting is outweighed by the realities of foreign policy obligations in the modern world.

    And there are a lot of reasonable people around the world who would disagree with you wholeheartedly.
    Reasonable people disagree all the time. That's the beauty of a civil discussion.

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