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  1. #1
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Interesting. I had trouble focusing with the 7 porn videos that were playing concurrently.

    A few thoughts:
    * Terrible PowerPoint--I'm personally offended
    * There's a difference between making love and doing porn? WAT
    * He didn't really provide any evidence for the intimacy difficulties men have (that I can remember), but I can see other reasons besides video games and porn. I think it's easy and fashionable to criticize those, but I think they're probably more a symptom than a cause. I would guess that men have intimacy issues (if they do) because of the extreme pressure society puts on us to appear masculine and in control. That has a lot to do with media imagery in movies, ads, and television shows that portray males that are smooth as fucking water. That imagery also filters into our conversations and language which reinforce the notion that males have to be invincible. Also, dating is very different these days. The internet has made it much easier to shop around for alternates, so women have much more power and control and can be much less forgiving. To top it off, I think a lack of healthy role models (in the family, in the media) leads to a lack of comfort with intimacy because we just don't really know what it's supposed to look and feel like.

  3. #3
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Yeah, I like that one guy's comment: "this is another case of old-man-afraid-internet."
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Wait. I forgot the most important thing. Are men even built for intimacy? What purpose would that serve from an evolutionary standpoint? Makes more sense to me to assume than men would be comfortable with seduction rather than long-term intimacy. In fact, if long-term intimacy stops a guy from impregnating others, he might even resist it.

  5. #5
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    * He didn't really provide any evidence for the intimacy difficulties men have (that I can remember),
    He said self-reports from college-aged men indicate increasing levels of discomfort and failure in the area of intimate relationships.... (~1:30)

    but I can see other reasons besides video games and porn. I think it's easy and fashionable to criticize those, but I think they're probably more a symptom than a cause. I would guess that men have intimacy issues (if they do) because of the extreme pressure society puts on us to appear masculine and in control. That has a lot to do with media imagery in movies, ads, and television shows that portray males that are smooth as fucking water. That imagery also filters into our conversations and language which reinforce the notion that males have to be invincible. Also, dating is very different these days. The internet has made it much easier to shop around for alternates, so women have much more power and control and can be much less forgiving. To top it off, I think a lack of healthy role models (in the family, in the media) leads to a lack of comfort with intimacy because we just don't really know what it's supposed to look and feel like.
    All plausible.

    I think what is being identified as a new trend is that men just aren't bothering to even try to connect with women anymore. They prefer the company of men. They used to be more prepared to endure the humiliation of approaching/associating with women because it was the only way their sexual desires were likely to be met. Take away that incentive (by substituting increased access to / variety of / acceptibility of porn) and they lose interest entirely.

    Take these examples from another forum:
    Quote Originally Posted by some tosser
    I love how it is always something wrong on the part of men, but that's the whole point when you get down to it.

    Men are tired of women's crap.
    Men are tired of American women in particular.
    Men are tired of being told to "Act like a man" by women who don't want to "Act like a woman"
    Men are tired of the atmosphere that has been created as of late.
    Men are much more jaded by 25 because of women they've dated than ever before.
    Men are tired of being treated as a pocketbook, resource, protector, etc.. and getting crapped on in return.
    Men are tired of being expected to take on the dangerous jobs, longer hours, and more responsibility, but are screamed at for making more money.

    Let's face it, most men don't want any part of it after a while.
    Give me something to enjoy my time with, some food and let me blow my load on occasion, and my needs are generally met.
    When the cost of dating a woman is more than a hooker, it's time to just get a hooker.
    Video games don't nag, pester, whine and demand attention every 10 minutes.
    Video games don't expect you to like all their friends, nor try to get to know all of your friends.
    I don't have to buy porn dinner or take it to a movie before it'll put out.
    Porn and video games don't have some irrational urge to talk about feelings and relationships every day.
    Porn and video games don't start dropping hints after 6 months about moving in and/or getting married.

    Simply put, again, many men are tired of women's crap, American women specifically.

    There's a number of decent foreign women who know how to interact with a man while still being able to be themselves, and more guys are becoming aware of this and going for them, vs a bunch of spoiled, loud mouth, bossy, overly entitled, classless American bitches with nothing but bad attitudes.

    Men may be the ones who are going for video games and porn, but women are the ones driving them to it.

    Much like how these articles always seem to be written by women, or a woman leading around yet another spineless, pussy-whipped man giving a broken spirited 'Yes dear" after everything she says.
    Quote Originally Posted by some other tosser
    Let's see.
    Social interaction with a woman in the work place can end in a career ending sexual harrassment accusation when you have a falling out and she decides to exact retribution.
    Social interaction with a woman on a date leading to a sexual encounter the woman regrets after can end in a life ending rape charge.
    Social interaction with a women leading to marriage and children ends in a divorce which results in your ex wife taking the house and a slice of your possesions and wealth, and leaves you with an extended obligation to support her with alimony and child support while she lives with the next guy, conveniently avoiding remarriage to leave you on the hook for as long as possible. Though child support is a legitimate obligation if you willingly and knowingly fathered them.
    I seriously doubt social interaction between the sexes has ever been great. Most guys were/are just jumping through a lot of painful socially mandated hoops to satify their sexual needs.
    At least its less bad now than it used to be when the societal norm was you had to marry someone for LIFE, the sex stopped being good about a week after the honeymoon and there then followed 60 years of ball and chain misery.
    Of course, that model was traded for one where women have acquired a nearly completely dominant position legally, socially and in the work place, which has resulted in a situation where is probably better for men in the long run, especially financially, to avoid relationships with women all together, hence the preference for games and porn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #6
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Wait. I forgot the most important thing. Are men even built for intimacy? What purpose would that serve from an evolutionary standpoint?
    We are a pair-bond species. We have a long gestation period and childhood. Men make oxytocin too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I thought the video was simplistic: It seems to be saying that men gathering to watch Superbowl Sunday is bad. And they do it because they watch too much Internet porn. (Never mind the fact that men were doing Superbowl Sunday before the Internet appeared).

    Here’s an idea for a counterpoint. I don’t know how heavily it weighs in men’s thinking; just food for thought.

    [...] there is good reason for males (men as well as boys) to be more fearful of sex than females. Contemporary reproductive technology and law place all the burden for unwanted pregnancy on them. Between the pill and abortion, women have complete control over the reproductive process. They can avoid or end any unwanted pregnancy, and the man involved has no say in the matter.
    [...]
    The crucial point here is that while the decision belongs entirely to her, in the event that a child is born the law assigns financial responsibility to the male involved. That is what the boy in her study means when he worries about being "screwed for the rest of my life." Short of sterilization, the only way for a male to be sure of avoiding this fate is to abstain from sex.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...g+behind+girls

    **********************************************

    Disclaimer: I don’t take a position myself; I’m not even particularly interested in the issue one way or the other. I just write it all off as part of the perrenial “Battle Between The Sexes.” I had just noticed some material about this stuff in The Wall Street Journal recently and thought I would post it for those who really are interested in the subject.

  8. #8
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^Not sure how that represents a counterpoint...

    Aren't you just reaffirming the position that shunning women is the rational course?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ^Not sure how that represents a counterpoint...

    Aren't you just reaffirming the position that shunning women is the rational course?
    I'm agreeing that there is a problem, or some kind of ongoing sea change in how young men and women relate. But I'm disputing the idea that the problem is caused by internet porn, as the video seemed to suggest.

  10. #10
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I'm agreeing that there is a problem. But I'm disputing that the problem is caused by internet porn, as the video seemed to suggest.
    His hypothesis is that gaming/porn don't help boys develop the social skills needed to interact effectively with girls/women. Also that they act as an (addictive) substitute such that there is less pressure to develop those skills /seek the rewards of genuine intimacy.

    I don't see how that can be disputed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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