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  1. #441
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    less "social genes"? Really we still have trouble identifying genes that may lead to congenit illnesses, I don't know if it's easy to believe in such a thing.
    Yeah like I said, I never checked up on it, just an idea based on possibly incorrect information.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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  2. #442
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I'm agreeing that there is a problem, or some kind of ongoing sea change in how young men and women relate. But I'm disputing the idea that the problem is caused by internet porn, as the video seemed to suggest.
    "No, don't take away my porn! I need it!" The insistence that porn is harmless is getting so ridiculous, I don't even know what to think anymore. It's like an alcoholic insisting that his fifth of whiskey every day is harmless and totally normal. No, it's not harmless, and it's not normal. It may be normal to have an occasional drink, just as it's normal for a man to be attracted to women, but the total failure of self-control and to see the consequences of one's actions is unbelievable.
    You lose.

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  3. #443
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    "No, don't take away my porn! I need it!" The insistence that porn is harmless is getting so ridiculous, I don't even know what to think anymore. It's like an alcoholic insisting that his fifth of whiskey every day is harmless and totally normal. No, it's not harmless, and it's not normal. It may be normal to have an occasional drink, just as it's normal for a man to be attracted to women, but the total failure of self-control and to see the consequences of one's actions is unbelievable.
    Sooner or later everyone realises that Lark was right about all this.

  4. #444
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I've heard these stats, and the theories he gives sound like they could have some basis. Interesting. I think this is one of those problems that has so many contributing factors it's impossible to point at just a few. Of course my solution is for people to reconnect with nature, and try to return to something resembling tribal living, to reconnect to each other. I don't know exactly how we are supposed to do that. Connecting with nature helps in a number of ways: it provides stimulation, it relieves stress by providing exercise and physical challenges, physical and mental challenges provide opportunities for learning, and people with "ADHD" actually are better equipped to survive in a natural environment. Boys/men wouldn't have to seek out imaginary violent and scary situations if they had to actually protect themselves from wild animals and weather conditions. And they wouldn't be fighting each other quite as much if they had to cooperate for the survival of the group. If the group they were in was smaller, the women would be more valuable. Not only would they have to cooperate with them for survival, but they would have a closer family environment and better intimate relationships with female members of their family, and so they would have a better understanding of it.

    Disclaimer: I am not suggesting that all tribal life was perfect, or that humanity is at all ready for some sudden sweeping social and economic change. I simply have identified certain conditions which are favorable for human well being.

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't represent any larger group of gamers. I play a limited selection of things. Many of my favorite games are fairly "gender neutral", and don't necessarily revolve around male centric promotional material. Most of the RPGs I play are like this.. you create your own characters in many RPGs. And they tend to have as many female fans as male. I think fantasy has taken on a more realistic turn since Lord of the Rings came out (by realistic, I mean, functional looking armor or people actually wearing clothes). A lot of old fantasy images with scantily clad warrior women had been in fantasy for years before games ever came out.. in large part due to Frank Frazetta. Who also influenced the comic book industry. Frazetta was an awesome painter, but I don't see as much of his influence going on nowadays. Even in fantasy book isles, book covers have changed. There's a lot more to offer than just sex and blood. And again, that's a genre that might be even more popular among females (across all ages, it seems like).

    Besides that, I'm playing things that don't even really involve "people" in any direct way. Like City Builders or strategy. They have nothing to say about social issues any more than Chess does. What I really care about is the "skeleton" part of the games.. the underlying goal of them. Even when it comes to kiddy beat em up games. I'll enjoy it if a boss fight's patterns are difficult to read or the underlying puzzle is challenging enough that I'm throwing the controller at the TV. I don't care if there are "hot chicks" in the game or the main character has a ten foot long penis. I don't even think I was that infantile and petty, even when I was a kid, and legitimately infantile and petty.
    Translation: You come for the b00bies and s3XXors.

  6. #446
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    Translation: You come for the b00bies and s3XXors.
    I wonder if those type of gamers are even a majority. I don't differentiate it from other real world activities I've become interested in. A good game is no different than when I spent hours practicing basketball shots or learning a new skateboard trick. Making a perfect run in a racing game or beating a "boss" in some platformer plays into the same underlying enjoyment I get in figuring out how a skateboard trick works. Like I said somewhere earlier, the real fun of games is in pattern recognition (conversely, the games stop becoming fun if you can predict the patterns too easily). Timing one's attacks right, turning left or right at this spot in the road, etc..

    All of these social/gender/political aspects of games are on the very bottom of the list of things I care about. Seems like other people give it more attention in one thought than I do in a whole lifetime of gaming.

  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I wonder if those type of gamers are even a majority.
    These guys do exist, but they certainly aren't the majority.

    I don't differentiate it from other real world activities I've become interested in. A good game is no different than when I spent hours practicing basketball shots or learning a new skateboard trick. Making a perfect run in a racing game or beating a "boss" in some platformer plays into the same underlying enjoyment I get in figuring out how a skateboard trick works. Like I said somewhere earlier, the real fun of games is in pattern recognition (conversely, the games stop becoming fun if you can predict the patterns too easily). Timing one's attacks right, turning left or right at this spot in the road, etc..

    All of these social/gender/political aspects of games are on the very bottom of the list of things I care about. Seems like other people give it more attention in one thought than I do in a whole lifetime of gaming.
    Same here. I don't know--maybe I'm weird--but I don't turn to games for social commentary or life lessons.
    More like cheap, accessible escapism, you know? To keep my mind off of all the horrific shit out there and in my personal life?

    I personally don't salivate over the CG-rendered women in gaming, comics, etc.
    Sure--it would be great if more women could look like that IRL, but I'm mostly there for the rampant violence.

    Some people simply have an agenda to push and place things out of context to appear smarter than they wish they were.

    No names will be mentioned.

  8. #448
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    It's a little odd that this thread is so laden with comments from people who never think about the topic...
    I guess if I have made the thoughtless think, I've achieved something.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    @Salomé

    I'm not sure if this will be interesting to you but I went with my mother to visit a friend who had just given birth to a baby boy and my mum is a midwife at Stafford hospital.

    Now firstly i'll admit that I could not find a source to back this up, although i'll also admit I didn't look that hard', but during the visit my mum advised the lady in question to breast feed skin to skin because it was more comforting to the baby to feel the warmth of it's mother.

    She then went on to mention that it was discovered that men have less social genes than women, (once again don't know about sources on this), which is why young boys and baby boys are more sensitive and require more physical contact and engagement at an early age.

    I thought this was interesting because if it was true, it seems to be the exact opposite of how gender cultures make out the genders to be. Most men for example learn to appear insensitive and mocking of those who are, whereas stereotypically it is believed women are more sensitive.

    It is not a surprise therefore that many men suffer from suppressed feelings of emotional vulnerability considering that if this information is correct, most are actually more desiring of a sensitive and emotionally open series of relationships, or at the very least they require it.
    OK. Well, no. Men do not have fewer "social genes" than women.
    They suffer emotionally because, as I have written before, they are brutalised by most societies. You see this in extreme forms in primitive tribes where boys often have to endure initiation rites involving severe pain or hardship to prepare them for the brutalities of the masculine role. But you also see evidence of it in so-called civilised societies where little boys are treated less tenderly and more roughly from a very young age. It's the same kind of preparation, the same kind of brutalisation. Violent video games play into that training in our own culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I've heard these stats, and the theories he gives sound like they could have some basis. Interesting. I think this is one of those problems that has so many contributing factors it's impossible to point at just a few. Of course my solution is for people to reconnect with nature, and try to return to something resembling tribal living, to reconnect to each other.
    I think you might be right. Not about tribalism (nothing in there to suggest better treatment of women or less aggression - look up the Yanomami) but I do agree that reconnecting with nature is beneficial. Sue Palmer reaches similar conclusions in her book, 21st century boys. I don't endorse everything she says, but much of it is common sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #449
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    OK. Well, no. Men do not have fewer "social genes" than women.
    They suffer emotionally because, as I have written before, they are brutalised by most societies. You see this in extreme forms in primitive tribes where the men often have to endure initiation rites involving severe pain or hardship to prepare them for the brutalities of the masculine role. But you also see evidence of it in so-called civilised societies where little boys are treated less tenderly and more roughly from a very young age. It's the same kind of preparation, the same kind of brutalisation. Violent video games play into that training in our own culture.
    Everyone is brutalized, unfortunately. Welcome to earth, etc..

    *I see you spelled it "brutalised". I thought you were American this whole time.

  10. #450
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I thought you were American this whole time.
    And so...the abuse starts.

    I would have thought my "behaviours" firmly unAmerican.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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