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  1. #381
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't know how to contribute to this thread - because it's all over the place - but that's a good point. Men have always had an urge to "test their mettle" (be it competitively, in hunting, war, etc.. or like you said, being a gunslinger). Video games have to be the most innocent outlet for that. It's like a former pyro landing a job on a hollywood stunt team. He gets to unleash his urges in a fairly innocuous (and entertaining) way by rigging explosives for "make believe". This is happening to a lot of men now with games, who otherwise would carry out destructive urges by living in some warmongering/warrior culture or some shit. Maybe some people want to still bitch and get to the root of the problem, but for the time being, the typical gamer isn't hurting anyone.
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Although why does gaming have to be ugly and violent you know?

    Not talking about GTA or anything like that, plus the fantasy component of games like GTA is fine, even the fantasy street fighting games like The Warriors which freaked people out because they featured drugs, theft and violence are fantasy material too.

    Although there's a lot more ugly in gaming than there needs to be, in culture generally maybe.

  2. #382
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Although why does gaming have to be ugly and violent you know?

    Not talking about GTA or anything like that, plus the fantasy component of games like GTA is fine, even the fantasy street fighting games like The Warriors which freaked people out because they featured drugs, theft and violence are fantasy material too.

    Although there's a lot more ugly in gaming than there needs to be, in culture generally maybe.
    It doesn't have to be violent necessarily. I'm just explaining the cases where it is. I don't care if this sounds "un-ISTPish", but I've learned some actual values (for the better) from games (as well as other media). Many stories in games deal with archetypes, address problems of good and evil, and many encourage a sort of heroic or humane stance on an issue. A lot of has probably rubbed off on me personally. This isn't video game based, but one thing that sticks with me is the famous line Stan Lee wrote for Spider Man: "With great power comes great responsibility." A simple message, but it's a powerful one. And it's from a comic book. Some games might put the player in the situation of rescuing children, or building a team that gets along and doesn't implode.. so it's not all ugly, y'know.

  3. #383
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It doesn't have to be violent necessarily. I'm just explaining the cases where it is. I don't care if this sounds "un-ISTPish", but I've learned some actual values (for the better) from games (as well as other media). Many stories in games deal with archetypes, address problems of good and evil, and many encourage a sort of heroic or humane stance on an issue. A lot of has probably rubbed off on me personally. This isn't video game based, but one thing that sticks with me is the famous line Stan Lee wrote for Spider Man: "With great power comes great responsibility." A simple message, but it's a powerful one. And it's from a comic book. Some games might put the player in the situation of rescuing children, or building a team that gets along and doesn't implode.. so it's not all ugly, y'know.
    Not saying it is by any stretch, I dont know if you'd be interested but there was a fantasy masterworks book called Beauty which in the course of its narrative provided a better critique of this that I'm talking about than ever I could.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't know how to contribute to this thread - because it's all over the place - but that's a good point. Men have always had an urge to "test their mettle" (be it competitively, in hunting, war, etc.. or like you said, being a gunslinger). Video games have to be the most innocent outlet for that. It's like a former pyro landing a job on a hollywood stunt team. He gets to unleash his urges in a fairly innocuous (and entertaining) way by rigging explosives for "make believe". This is happening to a lot of men now with games, who otherwise would carry out destructive urges by living in some warmongering/warrior culture or some shit. Maybe some people want to still bitch and get to the root of the problem, but for the time being, the typical gamer isn't hurting anyone.
    Thank you. That was a point I neglected to mention:
    Video games are an ideal way to avert the vicious animal competitiveness inherent in humans.

    Nobody gets hurt. People don't have to enact these things IRL, which brings me to my next point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Although why does gaming have to be ugly and violent you know?

    Not talking about GTA or anything like that, plus the fantasy component of games like GTA is fine, even the fantasy street fighting games like The Warriors which freaked people out because they featured drugs, theft and violence are fantasy material too.

    Although there's a lot more ugly in gaming than there needs to be, in culture generally maybe.
    I agree--games are a little too gratuitous with the violence, sex, drug use, etc.
    However, it is an outlet that allows players to engage in scenarios he or she would not be able to otherwise.

    You hit the major point at the end when you brought up culture.
    As a people, we love violence. We're fascinated by it. We laugh about it.

    Modern video gaming is a natural response to our unhealthy bloodlust.

  5. #385
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    Thank you. That was a point I neglected to mention:
    Video games are an ideal way to avert the vicious animal competitiveness inherent in humans.

    Nobody gets hurt. People don't have to enact these things IRL, which brings me to my next point...



    I agree--games are a little too gratuitous with the violence, sex, drug use, etc.
    However, it is an outlet that allows players to engage in scenarios he or she would not be able to otherwise.

    You hit the major point at the end when you brought up culture.
    As a people, we love violence. We're fascinated by it. We laugh about it.

    Modern video gaming is a natural response to our unhealthy bloodlust.
    Yes, quite.

    Er, the thing is, that I think there's a chicken and egg relationship between things like violent games and social attitudes or culture, sometimes its there and the game is a channel for it, sometimes the supply creates its own demand.

    Although the drive is there, unfortunately, I dont see it disappearing. Games and media are given too much credit for creating it.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Although why does gaming have to be ugly and violent you know?

    Not talking about GTA or anything like that, plus the fantasy component of games like GTA is fine, even the fantasy street fighting games like The Warriors which freaked people out because they featured drugs, theft and violence are fantasy material too.

    Although there's a lot more ugly in gaming than there needs to be, in culture generally maybe.
    I don't know but I can tell you that if I play too much of that, it darkens me. It doesn't make me crazy or immoral or anything like that, but my mood invariably becomes darker and more depressed. So yeah I think gaming and media in general is a bit obsessed with this lately.

    Not that I'm for censorship or anything like that. I play violent and scary games too, but there has to be a balance.

    There are a lot of people who are all serious about it and can't stand something that is more light hearted or even cute. I can't help but wonder if they are drawn to that because of the way they are, or if they are the way they are because that is all they do.

    I wonder more because I have also been stuck, so where everything I consumed was negative and I did not like positive things, but once I gave it a chance I realized exactly how down and negative I was. It was like being in a vile mud hole for so long that I got used to it but then I took a shower and remembered what 'clean' felt like.

  7. #387
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    I don't know but I can tell you that if I play too much of that, it darkens me. It doesn't make me crazy or immoral or anything like that, but my mood invariably becomes darker and more depressed. So yeah I think gaming and media in general is a bit obsessed with this lately.

    Not that I'm for censorship or anything like that. I play violent and scary games too, but there has to be a balance.

    There are a lot of people who are all serious about it and can't stand something that is more light hearted or even cute. I can't help but wonder if they are drawn to that because of the way they are, or if they are the way they are because that is all they do.

    I wonder more because I have also been stuck, so where everything I consumed was negative and I did not like positive things, but once I gave it a chance I realized exactly how down and negative I was. It was like being in a vile mud hole for so long that I got used to it but then I took a shower and remembered what 'clean' felt like.
    I know what you're talking about, in my teens I definitely went through a thug phase, I've read about people in that stage of life becoming the things they fear or similar things and I would concur. I was mean and reproached more innocent happiness, optimism, light heartedness.

    It took time and a lot of positive influences drip fed to me from people and other sources before my original self reasserted itself, something which I remembered as built upon childhood wishes and expectations which predated the negative experiences which had resulted in a hardening of my heart.

    That hard heartedness is a cultural phenomenon too, repressing emotions as weaknesses, attacking them in the self and others, any feelings trigger exaggerated volatility and rapid escalations to outbursts and aggression and there's a lot of seeking to compell others to feel the emotions or express the emotions which the self has rejected, so rather than feeling sad or dejected or revolted or reproachful there's aggression directed outwards towards others to cause them to experience that instead. If someone else is the victim rather than you then you are not the victim. That definitely was the culture among a lot of people I went to school with.

  8. #388
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I went through the same thing. I wonder if it's typical. I kind of imagine there's a whole group of people who never lost their innocence, and I envy them.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I went through the same thing. I wonder if it's typical. I kind of imagine there's a whole group of people who never lost their innocence, and I envy them.
    I keep in touch with the innocence of, "The Wind in the Willows", with my friends, Mole, Ratty and Badger.

    This is why I try to introduce you to them.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    It absolutely resembles my initial hypothesis.
    No, it doesn't. I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse, or if you just struggle with reading comprehension, but I've had enough of your nonsense either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duck_of_Death View Post
    We're overthinking this a bit.
    Hard to believe in your case.
    So as far as I'm concerned society is doing quite fantastic, thank you very much.
    It's great that Second Life is working out so well for you. I guess this means you can stop bitching about not getting laid now.
    And why are people dependent on pRon and their Xbox Live gaming?
    Because these things are readily available. It really is that simple.
    Well damn. Why didn't anyone else think of that? Maybe you should give a lecture?

    Alternatively, you could stop embarrassing yourself with further shocking displays of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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