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  1. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Needless to say, I disagree. The Second Sex is a phenomenally substantive and erudite account of the female condition throughout history. Ditto The Female Eunuch. Contemporary feminist books like Living Dolls and Female Chauvinist Pigs are similarly thought-provoking and resonant (with criticism firmly levelled at women, this time). Feminism isn't about denigrating men - it's about awakening and empowering women.

    This is not a feminist book however, it's more akin to masculinist propaganda.

    A book like this does nothing to further the goals of feminism. It appears to present them (or the economic ones, at least) as a fait accompli, when most of us in the trenches know this just isn't the case (if anything, we are regressing).
    I think Rosin has cherry-picked the available data from her own privileged position to present an extremely unbalanced picture. I can't understand why (other than the inflammatory title) this book is getting so much attention. It doesn't even contain any original ideas. And it grossly misrepresents the facts.
    Women are better equipped to take advantage of the information economy? Patently untrue. The number of women in this field is shrinking all the time. Men have been hit worse by the economic recession? No and No.

    This is irresponsible, superficial journalism. And her self-congratulatory tone is just obnoxious. All this book will accomplish, if anything, is the alienation of men and deeper complacency of women.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/hanna_rosin..._of_women.html
    Comments?
    I think those books you mention are rubbish, Germaine Greer has retracted most of what she wrote in that book with another book The Whole Woman or something like that, which really read to me like a generational shift.

    Talk about masculinist propaganda is rubbish, there's chauvinism, which is wrong in its true incarnation and there's mysogyny, which is as wrong as misandry or any other sort of dominating ideology, that's it. They are not exclusive to either sex and some females are mysogynists and some males are misandryists.

    Think beyond the simple and simplistic formulas that political liberalism or their publishing houses are willing to offer you.

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Her statistics might be questionable, but I agree with her claims to a large extent, at least for the Western world.
    But her claims are entirely grounded on those questionable statistics ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think those books you mention are rubbish,
    You do surprise me. Someone who thinks feminism is nothing but hot air and who makes facile and completely WRONG pronouncements about a text which he hasn't even glanced at beyond the cover, believes the classic texts of the feminist movement to be "rubbish" (almost certainly without reading them). At least you're consistent.
    However, this book would never have been written were feminism to be nothing but hot air. So you're also wrong.

    Talk about masculinist propaganda is rubbish,
    Know what else is rubbish? Your empty, misinformed, patronising rants. I guess that's why you feel at home in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #313

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    But her claims are entirely grounded on those questionable statistics ...

    You do surprise me. Someone who thinks feminism is nothing but hot air and who makes facile and completely WRONG pronouncements about a text which he hasn't even glanced at beyond the cover, believes the classic texts of the feminist movement to be "rubbish" (almost certainly without reading them). At least you're consistent.
    However, this book would never have been written were feminism to be nothing but hot air. So you're also wrong.

    Know what else is rubbish? Your empty, misinformed, patronising rants. I guess that's why you feel at home in this thread.
    I've read all those books, I used to like them but I reached a point at which I saw them for what they were.

    I can tell you're not familiar with post-feminism or any of the feminist critiques of those books or even simply women's criticism of the so called woman's liberation movements and pundits. It's much easier to assume or suggest ignorance on the part of anyone criticising your perspectives than to really examine your perspectives critically yourself.

  4. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've read all those books, I used to like them but I reached a point at which I saw them for what they were.

    I can tell you're not familiar with post-feminism or any of the feminist critiques of those books or even simply women's criticism of the so called woman's liberation movements and pundits. It's much easier to assume or suggest ignorance on the part of anyone criticising your perspectives than to really examine your perspectives critically yourself.
    You haven't read them. If you had, you know that the last two are post-feminist critiques.
    I already had you down as someone who disparages others without careful consideration, I didn't have you down as a liar tho...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You haven't read them. If you had, you know that the last two are post-feminist critiques.
    I already had you down as someone who disparages others without careful consideration, I didn't have you down as a liar tho...
    Dont be daft, I've read them and reviewed them on Amazon UK too if you care to check, I think I gave them better scores than I would reading them today though.

    Female Chauvinist Pigs was interesting but unoriginal and stated a lot of mundanities, ie women can exploit women, a lot of pop-feminism has mutated into further or rebranded exploitation etc. I'd say that both those books are not post-feminist but pop-feminist publishing.

    While the other books you mentioned are just historical curios in most of the western world, like I say unrepresentative of most women's experience and not even in sync with a lot of liberationists or contemporaneous feminists.

    This entire posts makes me think about a certain story about splinter/mot and plank.

  6. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    But her claims are entirely grounded on those questionable statistics ...
    She appears to be claiming that market forces are favoring female traits. I think that's a stretch. I think it's more accurate to say that the forces are no longer favoring traditionally male traits. Established bias might help the traditional male hold on to power longer, but their light is fading. Natural selection will eventually prevail.

    The other part of her claim has to do with how far along the transformation is. Stats can probably be used to support various views with respect to this.

  7. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Dont be daft, I've read them and reviewed them on Amazon UK too if you care to check, I think I gave them better scores than I would reading them today though.
    I wonder why you would take the time to read so much around a topic you dismiss as hot air? That seems rather....contrary of you...
    I'd say that both those books are not post-feminist but pop-feminist publishing.
    More accurately, they are critiques of postfeminist thinking. But this conversation is pointless. Labels are meaningless. Your only intention in this thread seems to be (as it ever is) to assert both that you are better-read than anyone else and also that you fail to benefit from any of your reading.
    Unless I'm wrong and you actually have a point, if so feel free to get to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    She appears to be claiming that market forces are favoring female traits. I think that's a stretch. I think it's more accurate to say that the forces are no longer favoring traditionally male traits.
    I agree, which is why I found your first post odd.
    Established bias might help the traditional male hold on to power longer, but their light is fading. Natural selection will eventually prevail.
    It's nonsensical to suppose this has anything to do with natural selection. Just as patriarchal supremacy had nothing to do with it.
    The selection pressures facing the human race have been artificial for some time now.
    The other part of her claim has to do with how far along the transformation is. Stats can probably be used to support various views with respect to this.
    Even her own stats do not bear out the sensational nature of her claims. Which is why I think this is an irresponsible, ill-conceived and cynical book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #318

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I wonder why you would take the time to read so much around a topic you dismiss as hot air? That seems rather....contrary of you...
    I'm not known for playing the sorts of games it seems you're here for. Good luck with the next person you try to engage in conversation instead.

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not known for playing the sorts of games it seems you're here for. Good luck with the next person you try to engage in conversation instead.
    I guess I hit a nerve...
    It's a pity, since I'm one of the few people on here who still tries to engage you like an adult, instead of immediately dismissing you as an unreasonable bigot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I guess I hit a nerve...
    It's a pity, since I'm one of the few people on here who still tries to engage you like an adult, instead of immediately dismissing you as an unreasonable bigot.
    "Adult" and "unreasonable bigot" are not mutually exclusive.

    Disclaimer: not directed at any member in particular.
    -end of thread-

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