User Tag List

First 21293031323341 Last

Results 301 to 310 of 485

  1. #301
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Here, despite all the pop-feminism fifty shades of grey is a best seller and the fastest best seller since Harry Potter too and it features a virginal young woman submitting masochistically to a controlling sadist, now its a far cry from de Sade by all accounts but it looks like a lot of people are up for betraying womans lib in a hurry.
    I don't think that book is at all a reflection of women's attitudes or interests. I think it's purely a best-seller because of the fit people are throwing about it. People are reading it because they want to know what the fuss is about. If you read reviews on the websites selling it, or various other book-oriented discussion sites... The reaction I've seen to it is largely negative. The reviews are poor. You're hard-pressed to find people who enjoyed it.

    I think a lot of people are in the boat I was in... I saw a news story about a library banning it. And at that point, I just wanted to know. I'd have never been interested without that.

    I would blame the sales on media/news/talk shows making a big deal out of it, as if it were the only risque book ever to be written. That books popularity has nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with how the media pushed it.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  2. #302
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    I don't think that book is at all a reflection of women's attitudes or interests. I think it's purely a best-seller because of the fit people are throwing about it. People are reading it because they want to know what the fuss is about. If you read reviews on the websites selling it, or various other book-oriented discussion sites... The reaction I've seen to it is largely negative. The reviews are poor. You're hard-pressed to find people who enjoyed it.

    I think a lot of people are in the boat I was in... I saw a news story about a library banning it. And at that point, I just wanted to know. I'd have never been interested without that.

    I would blame the sales on media/news/talk shows making a big deal out of it, as if it were the only risque book ever to be written. That books popularity has nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with how the media pushed it.
    That hasn't been my experience. Up here in the big Northeast cities, 50 Shades was absolutely a word-of-mouth phenomenon for a few weeks. It was only later that the media even began to pay attention to it. Furthermore, many of my friends loved the books, even as they recognize that it's not particularly well-written.

    It wouldn't surprise me if most of the rest of the country didn't take notice of the book until the media picked up on it, since they do have a habit of spreading Northeastern phenomena nationwide.

  3. #303
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Just read this at the Daily Beast, and thought it made some good points:

    Is Mila Kunis Good for Men?

    In Seth MacFarlane’s new comedy, Ted, Mila Kunis defines a Hollywood archetype: the Man-Up Dream Girl, helping sad-sack boyfriends grow a pair—and fall in love.

    Shortly into Seth MacFarlane’s new film, Ted, Mila Kunis’s character returns to the apartment she shares with her 35-year-old boyfriend to find their third roommate, a foul-mouthed teddy bear, partying with four hookers, one of whom has pooped on her carpet. That’s it, she decides. The boyfriend has to choose between her and his stuffed bear. He has to grow up.

    While the circumstances may be unique (though, really, who hasn’t dated a guy who lives with an oversexed, pot-smoking childhood toy?), Kunis is retracing familiar territory with the role. In each of her three most recent romantic comedies, the actress plays the girl who, through a delicate combination of brashness and vulnerability, helps her leading man grow a pair and get his life together—and love both her and himself for it.

    In 2008’s Forgetting Sarah Marshall, Kunis inspires Jason Segel’s character to stop putzing around with the idea of producing a Dracula puppet musical and actually put on the show. (She’s drawn, apparently, to men who play with toys.) In last year’s Friends With Benefits, she convinces Justin Timberlake’s character that he won’t “shit the bed” if he accepts a fancy new job at a men’s magazine. And in Ted, she helps Mark Wahlberg’s character become a little less codependent on his fuzzy best friend.

    As cultural surveyors fret about the future of American men, from Hanna Rosin’s forthcoming book, The End of Men: And the Rise of Women, to the staggering male unemployment numbers that birthed the “man-cession,” to studies revealing men’s anxiety about shifting gender roles, Kunis is helping to define what may be a new, refreshingly likable female archetype: the Man-Up Dream Girl.

    Sure, comedies about adult women attempting to make it work with man-children have dominated the box office for more than a decade (see Judd Apatow), but few of the films’ leading ladies have pulled off this love story as convincingly as Kunis. Unlike her cinematic predecessors—those “striver” women who must contort their clichéd uptight selves to make a relationship with a “slacker” boyfriend seem plausible, as New Yorker film critic David Denby labeled these couples—Kunis doesn’t have to martyr herself to save her man.

    And unlike Manic Pixie Dream Girls, those ethereal, one-dimensional muses who writers repeatedly cast as emotionally stunted men’s fantasy girlfriends, Kunis’s characters feel like real women. For those unfamiliar with the trope, the A.V. Club’s Nathin Rabin famously defined these nymphs, who exist “solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures.” Think Natalie Portman in Garden State, or Zooey Deschanel in 500 Days of Summer. Instead of helping men connect with their inner-child, Kunis helps them find their inner man.


    “She puts out a vibe that she takes no shit,” says Forgetting Sarah Marshall director Nick Stoller. If she were cast as the lead in 500 Days of Summer, he jokes, she’d be like, “Here’s the deal. I don’t like you.” The story would be over before it begins.

    For many American men stuck in a state of “pre-adulthood,” it’s not so much a lack of desire to grow up as ambivalence about the best way forward, says Kay Hymowitz, author of the book Manning Up: How the Rise of Women Has Turned Men Into Boys. Without obvious role models or a clear script for what it means to be a man today, many harbor the fantasy that “a beautiful girl will come along and help them figure out how to do it.”

    Yes, pointing out that men fantasize about Kunis is like saying they fantasize about playing pro basketball, but the reasons for her appeal may be surprisingly good news for both sexes. She’s both direct and easy-going. She can hang and talk like a bro, and get angry without sounding preachy—unlike, say, Katherine Heigl’s character in Knocked Up or Jennifer Aniston’s character in The Break-Up, who seem almost maternal in their endeavors. And she’s effortlessly funny.

    Which may help to explain Kunis’s ascent. In her late teens, she won a cult following with her role on That ‘70s Show and her voice work on Family Guy. But it wasn’t until her big-screen breakout in Forgetting Sarah Marshall that she rose to A-list status in Hollywood. Her persona has only been boosted by recent reports that she saved a man’s life during a violent seizure, and last year, jumped to the defense of Timberlake during a press conference—in fluent Russian. She scored points when she accepted a Marine’s invite to accompany him to last year's Marine Corp Ball. She's also gotten press for dating Macaulay Culkin and, allegedly, Ashton Kutcher, but her off-screen choices arguably just make her seem more human.
    Of course, her almost inhuman good looks—she’s borderline cartoonish in her wide-eyed, tiny-bodied appearance—may also have something to do with her appeal. Last year, Kunis, now 28, dramatically boosted magazine sales when she graced a glossy's cover, according to WWD. (Interestingly, actual man-child Justin Bieber was cover kryptonite.) Earlier this year, she became the new face of Dior. And perhaps equally telling, the same smart, menschy guys who once gushed about Natalie Portman have all but stopped buzzing about the new mom, replacing her with Kunis. (Don’t tell Nina Sayers!)

    In his GQ cover story on Kunis last year, David Marchese ended the interview by, yes, asking her out. (She said no.) As for why men are drawn to her, he says, “She just doesn’t seem like a pushover. She seems like she wouldn’t take any guff, or that she would give as much as she would take.”

    As it were, much of the guff Kunis gives in her roles as a Man-Up Dream Girl revolves around teasing her love interests for being girls—which, to be sure, feminists might protest. In Forgetting Sarah Marshall, when Segel’s character shows up at the Hawaii resort where she works with a broken heart and no place to stay, she hooks him up with a room, then teases him later for sobbing like a woman. When they go on a hike and he’s afraid to follow her lead and jump off a cliff into the ocean, she yells, “I can see your vagina!” (Ironic, since he goes full-frontal earlier in the movie.) In the end, though, she helps him get out of his own way and become the man he wants to be.

    In Friends With Benefits, as her and Timberlake’s characters navigate their pals-who-sleep-together relationship, she both makes herself vulnerable and sets him straight when he disappoints her. And in a strangely familiar scene, when the two go on a hike and Timberlake’s character is afraid to follow her lead and jump a fence to check out the Hollywood sign, she calls him the P word. Once he mans up and, after an argument, attempts to win her over with a grand romantic gesture, they happily enter into what promises to be an adult relationship.

    Which brings us to Ted, in which her Man-Up Dream Girl persona becomes something of a caricature, as probably makes sense in a movie starring a computer-generated stuffed animal. Kunis plays a rising public-relations star who, as she told Entertainment Weekly, “knows what she wants out of life and desperately wants her boyfriend to be in her life with her in the same way.”

    Wahlberg plays her sweet if clueless car-rental-agent boyfriend, who spends an inordinate amount of time getting high and watching Flash Gordon with Ted, a toy who was brought to life on a childhood wish. Kunis tones down the taunting in this movie, instead simply telling Wahlberg’s character that she needs a man, not a boy. Her character is unrealistically patient and understanding, but her mission remains the same—and her boyfriend ultimately comes around.

    After Knocked Up hit theaters in 2007, The New Yorker’s Denby dissected the decade’s slew of movies in which successful, mature women (“strivers”) date ambitionless boys (“slackers”). In his article, he lamented the genre’s implication that “women bring home the bacon, but men bring home the soul.”

    Kunis was up for Heigl’s role in Knocked Up, but she didn’t get the part. Perhaps she gave the character too much soul. And she seems unlikely to be cast as the ethereal-muse type—as a Manic Pixie Dream Girl—a role that tends to be blinded by soul. By bringing home bacon and soul, Kunis may just be the role model men have been seeking.

  4. #304
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Honor Code

    .
    .
    .
    .
    Some of the decline in male performance may be genetic. The information age rewards people who mature early, who are verbally and socially sophisticated, who can control their impulses. Girls may, on average, do better at these things. After all, boys are falling behind not just in the U.S., but in all 35 member-nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

    But the big story here is cultural and moral. If schools want to re-engage Henry, they can’t pretend they can turn him into a reflective Hamlet just by feeding him his meds and hoping he’ll sit quietly at story time. If schools want to educate a fiercely rambunctious girl, they can’t pretend they will successfully tame her by assigning some of those exquisitely sensitive Newbery award-winning novellas. Social engineering is just not that easy.

    Schools have to engage people as they are. That requires leaders who insist on more cultural diversity in school: not just teachers who celebrate cooperation, but other teachers who celebrate competition; not just teachers who honor environmental virtues, but teachers who honor military virtues; not just curriculums that teach how to share, but curriculums that teach how to win and how to lose; not just programs that work like friendship circles, but programs that work like boot camp.

    The basic problem is that schools praise diversity but have become culturally homogeneous. The education world has become a distinct subculture, with a distinct ethos and attracting a distinct sort of employee. Students who don’t fit the ethos get left out.

    Little Prince Hal has a lot going on inside. He’s not the unfeeling, uncommunicative, testosterone-driven cretin of common boy stereotype. He’s just inspired by a different honor code. He doesn’t find much inspiration in school, but he should.
    I've stated it before, but this is part of that answer. To fix the graduation rates for guys, you need to fix the education system to help guys. When you do that, that is when you will see graduation rates for guys go back up, less of the so called ADHD spike we see in little boys, and more guys going to college and to graduate. It might even fix some of these so called issues of gaming and porn.

  5. #305
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    6,243

    Default

    1 star.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  6. #306
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    ^Thank you for that scintillating contribution, doc.

    Talking of "double standards" why is it that Blank's anecdote about the woman who didn't want an uneducated house husband drew so much condemnation, whilst the one below passes without comment?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Having grown up in the latter part of the 20th century and come into adulthood in the early 21st century, I have developed a distaste for women who want traditional husbands and families. I am drawn towards independent, confident women who count themselves among the movers and shakers of society. The thought of being married to a woman who wants to stay at home and pump out babies and tend to her garden sickens me. I didn't make this choice voluntarily, but my preference is strong and undeniable.
    ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    I don't think there's one quick, easy solution that would fix all of men's societal problems in one fell swoop. One thing that definitely needs to be done is remove the stigma for a man to talk about and express his feelings without being considered weak, feminine, or gay.
    Who is it that perpetuates the "stigma" that being feminine or gay = "being weak"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    It just seems absurd to think that your sister was equal in every way with this man sans the genitals, and yet was paid a lower salary.
    Since when did the absurdity of inequality prevent it from being a reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Wage discrimination is no longer a serious problem. Proper statistical analysis shows this to be true regardless of Blank's sister's personal experience.
    Why don't you ever back up your ill-informed claims with said "proper statistical analysis"? All you do is sneer, whine and stomp your feet. It doesn't impress anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Circle View Post
    *EDIT* Not exactly relevant, but this discussion reminds me of the following quote from Camille Paglia:
    That's both ridiculous and readily disproved: Marie Curie vs Myra Hynley.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #307
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default The End of Men



    Anyone read this book? I read a review in the guardian and it seemed like a lot of hot air/little substance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post


    Anyone read this book? I read a review in the guardian and it seemed like a lot of hot air/little substance.
    Unfortunately that sums up feminism pretty much.

  9. #309
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Needless to say, I disagree. The Second Sex is a phenomenally substantive and erudite account of the female condition throughout history. Ditto The Female Eunuch. Contemporary feminist books like Living Dolls and Female Chauvinist Pigs are similarly thought-provoking and resonant (with criticism firmly levelled at women, this time). Feminism isn't about denigrating men - it's about awakening and empowering women.

    This is not a feminist book however, it's more akin to masculinist propaganda.

    A book like this does nothing to further the goals of feminism. It appears to present them (or the economic ones, at least) as a fait accompli, when most of us in the trenches know this just isn't the case (if anything, we are regressing).
    I think Rosin has cherry-picked the available data from her own privileged position to present an extremely unbalanced picture. I can't understand why (other than the inflammatory title) this book is getting so much attention. It doesn't even contain any original ideas. And it grossly misrepresents the facts.
    Women are better equipped to take advantage of the information economy? Patently untrue. The number of women in this field is shrinking all the time. Men have been hit worse by the economic recession? No and No.

    This is irresponsible, superficial journalism. And her self-congratulatory tone is just obnoxious. All this book will accomplish, if anything, is the alienation of men and deeper complacency of women.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/hanna_rosin..._of_women.html
    Comments?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #310
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    This is irresponsible, superficial journalism. And her self-congratulatory tone is just obnoxious. All this book will accomplish, if anything, is the alienation of men and deeper complacency of women.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/hanna_rosin..._of_women.html
    Comments?
    Her statistics might be questionable, but I agree with her claims to a large extent, at least for the Western world. The only area where men are superior to women is when it comes to physical strength. In modern society, physical strength no longer have the economic value of the past. The sports and entertainment industry is where this trait is still idolized and highly rewarded. Shows like Survivor, insidiously reinforces the attitude that men are more valuable than women. But economic natural selection will prevail over time.

    It's not the end of men. They might no longer be rewarded for just being, but nothing prevents them from competing successfully under the economic reality.

Similar Threads

  1. The Demise of Ladies
    By Beorn in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 01-08-2013, 10:46 PM
  2. [INTP] How Can I Win the Love of an INTP Guy?
    By I Never Find Peace in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 05-04-2012, 02:08 PM
  3. The Demise of Zergling
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 444
    Last Post: 10-25-2011, 07:04 PM
  4. What are you guys feeling about the state of affairs now?
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 03-31-2009, 02:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO