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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Certain groups of people are born with privilege in relation to other groups due to historical, cultural, or socioeconomic factors. Things like women's groups, affirmative action, etc wokr to correct this imbalance.
    But affirmative action doesn't work.

    You're just doing the class benefiting from it a disservice by keeping them from facing the competitive pressures that exist in the real world.

    I'm fine with scholarships for those who earn them, and I'm fine with spending $$ to improve education, but lowering the bar for classes of people just hurts them in the long run.

    More to the point you never really addressed why that privilege should keep men from being treated the same as women.

    Especially for those men from my generation and after who haven't had the same advantage (or any at all for that matter) that those from prior generations have.

  2. #172
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Have any of you guys ever been a victim of female on male violence that did not involve child abuse via a parent or guardian?
    I haven't been, personally, but I've seen my sister pull a knife during an argument with her husband (who has never touched her) while her 3 children were crying downstairs. I called the police. But it's not big deal because she's a woman, right?

    I would not laugh if a woman really violently attacked a man.
    Good for you, but unfortunately you can't speak for all women. Some would even cheer. In the linked video you can see a woman walk past another woman who is physically abusing a man in public, and she pumps her fists, cheering the abuse. She assumed he deserved it. In fact, most people who walked past that scene assumed the guy deserved it. If you don't think that's fucked up, there's something wrong with you.

    I know it happens, but its rare, and that is why I find mens rights so absurd, though I do agree men should be able to be able to safely report and be protected from domestic violence.
    Do you know how rare?

    Did you know it wasn't even illegal to rape your wife in all 50 states of the US until 1993?
    Did you know that, according to the FBI, it wasn't even possible to rape a male until January of this year? We're not talking about some backwards state, we're talking about the federal government here. When I first heard this, I was astounded.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...men/52398350/1

    Yet somehow some of you believe feminism is so out of hand and unnecessary that we need mens activism. Even though third wave feminism already covers gender queer equality issues.
    I don't think there needs to be any sort of organized "men's rights" group. But when men speak up about abuse or unfair treatment, they shouldn't be shouted down simply because they're male (which is what people like Salome/Blue Monday do). That's bullshit regardless of which wave of feminism you claim to be a part of.

    Even though it appears to many of us that it is simply the equality of women (not any kind of advantage or superiority) that is actually scaring you.
    I don't doubt that this idea frightens some males, but not all. There are plenty of confident males who aren't intimidated by females, they're just annoyed by the over-the-top self-righteous attitude of some females on this issue.

    It would be peachy if most people holding Bachelors degrees were male, amirite?
    Huh?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't doubt that this idea frightens some males, but not all. There are plenty of confident males who aren't intimidated by females, they're just annoyed by the over-the-top self-righteous attitude of some females on this issue.
    A thousand times this.

  4. #174
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    A thousand times this.
    Really preachy Christians get the same reaction out of me.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #175
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Really preachy Christians get the same reaction out of me.
    Occasionally me too.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    But affirmative action doesn't work.
    it actually sort of does.

    yes, it has negative affects, sometimes not only to the other side - the reality laws protecting women and their increase usage have increased the cost of legal insurance for corporations that hire more women and increasing their cost (which probably accounts to most of the remaining wage differences)...

    but the reality is that human nature is naturally biased towards creating "[insert trait] club" based on your social experience, and are cognitively bias towards past experience.

    this means that if your a white male who socializes near exclusively with other white males, and your running a hospital department where most of the good surgeons you have met and respected are white males, simply because its being the case that they where the ones hired previously, you will be more inclined to hire white male surgeons, simply because the way your brain is wired, even if you have no chauvinistic or racist ideologies.

    affirmative action, while being unfair on a case by case basis, accelerate the process of breaking those glass ceilings.

    and this is actually good for you, mister white male, in a counter intuitive way, because while either one is a form of discrimination, as it swings back and forth the degree of discrimination decreases, which means people are increasingly hired by a company based on how well they are qualified by it, which - assuming a sound business plan - means the company will increase its profit faster and grow faster and create more jobs to hire more people.

    in other words, even if you lost 4-5 potential job openings because of affirmative action, you would have gained 20-30 job openings (relatively) because of it.

  8. #178
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    You two should brohug and get a broroom together.

    I'm a supporter of human rights, not mens or womens rights.

    There is a physical difference though and it would be stupid to ignore that, even the brain structure is different.

    I think people are uncomfortable with that fact.
    Whoops.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    affirmative action, while being unfair on a case by case basis, accelerate the process of breaking those glass ceilings.
    As long as anti-discrimination is law, there are no ceilings to brake. Why spend on this when there are more pressing issues.

    I'd rather spend the money on education reform, and address the problem at it's root than force non meritocratic practices on businesses.

    and this is actually good for you, mister white male, in a counter intuitive way, because while either one is a form of discrimination, as it swings back and forth the degree of discrimination decreases, which means people are increasingly hired by a company based on how well they are qualified by it, which - assuming a sound business plan - means the company will increase its profit faster and grow faster and create more jobs to hire more people.

    in other words, even if you lost 4-5 potential job openings because of affirmative action, you would have gained 20-30 job openings (relatively) because of it.
    I have a name... and it is not mister white male. You would do well to remember that.

    Meritocracy is better served by making everyone an equal opportunity employer than by mandating certain hiring practices.

    So you're arguing that non meritocratic hiring practices actually spur growth?

    I disagree on a very fundamental level.

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Have any of you guys ever been a victim of female on male violence that did not involve child abuse via a parent or guardian?
    actually...

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