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  1. #141
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    [YOUTUBE="78The5o5KZc"]Men and Women[/YOUTUBE]

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Have you ever considered the possibility that you're the one being sexist here, and that's why you're unable to comprehend why being a "househusband" isn't a fulfilling role for males? Probably not. You can't be sexist, you're female.
    That's not what she said at all. She said that she thinks it's an acceptable job for a responsible man. Whether or not it's a fulfilling job for a responsible man is entirely up to the individual. Some responsible men might be happy to be stay at home dads, others would prefer to be the primary breadwinners outside the home. Marm didn't say anything about which one she expects men to prefer, nor do I think she has a problem understanding what's fulfilling and what's not. It's the same deal for women like she said: she respects some women's choices to be high flying lawyers while saying that's not the life for her.

  3. #143
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    That's not what she said at all. She said that she thinks it's an acceptable job for a responsible man. Whether or not it's a fulfilling job for a responsible man is entirely up to the individual. Some responsible men might be happy to be stay at home dads, others would prefer to be the primary breadwinners outside the home. Marm didn't say anything about which one she expects men to prefer, nor do I think she has a problem understanding what's fulfilling and what's not. It's the same deal for women like she said: she respects some women's choices to be high flying lawyers while saying that's not the life for her.
    1. You and I have come away with completely different interpretations of what she's trying to say.
    2. What is fulfilling for a male is NOT entirely up to the individual because males need some external validation. If a male chooses to become a househusband, but his peers look down on him because of it, it will feel less fulfilling. That's how the male brain works. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but they're pretty rare.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    1. You and I have come away with completely different interpretations of what she's trying to say.
    2. What is fulfilling for a male is NOT entirely up to the individual because males need some external validation. If a male chooses to become a househusband, but his peers look down on him because of it, it will feel less fulfilling. That's how the male brain works. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but they're pretty rare.
    1. No shit. I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted what she said because you two are eager to find fault with each other.
    2. When I said "up to the individual", I meant it not so much as a matter of conscious choice but rather that different individuals react differently, i.e. they require varying degrees of external validation. I have nothing to say about your blanket assertion, which may or may not be true. In any case, if they're responsible adults who are doing something worthwhile with their lives and deriving fulfillment from it, I don't see what the problem is. As far as I can see, those men aren't the individuals being railed against here.

  5. #145
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    Is this a legit debate/discussion?

    I thought not.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Is this a legit debate/discussion?

    I thought not.
    You just want to lure people back to your own thread!

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Whether or not she has good reason to be isn't relevant because she's not proposing solutions. She starts these threads for the sole purpose of bashing males. It's emotional masturbation for her.
    I don't think she starts these threads for the sole purpose of bashing males. The first post contained just a link to a TED video.

    Although the language could be more civil, the points raised are legitimate.

    If a woman wants to be a career woman, and have her partner be a stay at home dad, what's wrong with that?

    If men, on the whole, are forgoing relationships with males at higher rates than before, that would be an interesting topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm sure this is true, but the fact that some females have suffered more does not make the suffering of any particular male irrelevant, and that's really the issue here. Blue Monday/Salome (someone reminded me what her old name was) views this all as a female vs male battle. It's not. Issues that negatively impact one gender inevitably come around to impact the other. Trying to look at any of this in the vacuum of a single gender is too narrow-minded to be useful.
    Well, I think many in this thread have been painting with too broad a brush.

    I was arguing that point along with you.

    But how exactly does saying Salome ALWAYS does this sort of thing help matters?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Hold up just one minute.

    You could use that to justify anything.

    The actions of individuals can never justify stereotypical arguments about a class of people.

    The argument that: I've had shitty things done to me by individuals who happened to be members of group _______, does not justify a hostile attitude towards members of that group generally regardless of the actions of individuals involved.
    I don't justify anything. I find the whole notion of justification to be a fool's errand. You can talk to @reason about why justification is such a poor stance to take philosophically.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Are you kidding me.

    What about emotional damage?

    This whole presumption of the primacy of female suffering is laughably stupid.
    Emotional damage? How do you measure that?

    This idea of comparing suffering is poor. I should not have brought it up.

    But I'm pretty sure, if you look at the statistics, that more violence has been done by men against women than vice-versa. http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticV...(National).pdf

    Note the numbers, 1 in 6 women have had someone at least try to rape her. 1 in 33 isn't a great statistic either, but it is less.

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  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    You just want to lure people back to your own thread!
    :P

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    But I'm pretty sure, if you look at the statistics, that more violence has been done by men against women than vice-versa. http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticV...(National).pdf

    Note the numbers, 1 in 6 women have had someone at least try to rape her. 1 in 33 isn't a great statistic either, but it is less.
    So...

    Women and men hurt each other equally... if sometimes in less quantifiable ways.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    1. No shit. I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted what she said because you two are eager to find fault with each other.
    Well, Marmie Dearest is the only one who can clear this up. But I'm glad you're here to try to play referee.

    2. When I said "up to the individual", I meant it not so much as a matter of conscious choice but rather that different individuals react differently, i.e. they require varying degrees of external validation. I have nothing to say about your blanket assertion, which may or may not be true. In any case, if they're responsible adults who are doing something worthwhile with their lives and deriving fulfillment from it, I don't see what the problem is. As far as I can see, those men aren't the individuals being railed against here.
    I think the evidence is quite clear. If being a househusband was a path to fulfillment for males, more males would be doing it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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