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  1. #91

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    I do think there's a problem with screen time eclipsing social interaction though, also I think there's something wrong with the amounts of pornographic material being viewed if the OP is accurate, its interesting what was said about how addictive behaviour develops with that sort of a focus into craving variety or difference didnt know that.

    The point seems to be less about manliness and more about social ineptitude, I do think that IS on the rise and when that ineptitude collides with reality enough the disaffection and alienation or simple frustration turns toxic and there's fall out from that.

    Away back in the nineties (does feel as long to me as what its actually been) I remember some nerdy types studying on a course with me talking about how all the excitement about online technology and how it'd enlarge the scope of social interaction was bogus, that the contact with other people which was being flagged as taking place with these new mediums was phony and it was all contact with a computer, with a machine. The more time has past the more I think that's true.

  2. #92
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure about society demanding more from "P-men" in the future. With our technological progress, the demand for labor is decreasing, so they won't be needed, economically. And it's possible that females will just mate with the more successful males. You see where I'm going with this?
    I know where you are going with this and no you can't have all the womenz. xD

    I'm saying that P-men would not let it go to far, and by that time have stepped up to the plate as clearly society will be demanding more from them in order to achieve their desires.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #93
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Oh, but I did know what you meant. The "envy" is more a speculative metaphor. It's still kind of surprising to me to think of men envying women for any reason, considering the sorts of discourse out there about the inferiority of women (not that I mean that all men look down on women).
    There are men who envy the choice women have. This is actually a discussion I've had with my wife, who will make considerably more money than me despite the fact that I'm an engineer with a graduate degree. I have considered the prospect of "staying at home with the kids", but interestingly, she would be less comfortable with that arrangement than me. She doesn't want a "loser", so she would rather hire a nanny. And even for me, I wouldn't feel comfortable being only a "househusband". I would HAVE to do something in addition to that, or else I know I would feel like I was lacking value.

    P.S. The italicized portion of my post is probably unnecessary, but I felt the need to add it because I have to demonstrate my value, lest someone consider me to be a "loser".
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #94
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I know where you are going with this and no you can't have all the womenz. xD

    I'm saying that P-men would not let it go to far, and by that time have stepped up to the plate as clearly society will be demanding more from them in order to achieve their desires.
    I hope so, I have 5 brothers and 3 of them are P's.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #95
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I hope so, I have 5 brothers and 3 of them are P's.
    You could always (subtly) support them in their ventures, if things go the wrong way.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #96
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Look guys, I have problems with some of what the woman said in the video but I only saw it as some ideas being tossed out there from the other perspective, and an opportunity to reconsider some preconceptions. I don't think admitting that there may be some validity in what she says means I'm betraying my sex, just because I don't launch into a tirade about what pigs men can be, or make all this into an argument about whom suffers more (because lets face it, realistically it's women anyway).

    For every representation of the buffoon husband there is the shrewish wife to go with it, which I find just as insulting. It sets a negative standard for both: men are immature and irresponsible, and women are forced to become bitches to reign them in. It reminds me of the George Carlin quote: "Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid".

    Whatever women suffer in western society, you must admit many do want to have their cake and eat it too. Some want to be equal and independent as befitting modern culture but at the same time they expect men to adhere to social courtesies associated with patriarchy and sexist times long gone by. I see many women exploiting their power over men (and by that I mean, as gatekeepers to sex) to make them grovel and do what ever their women want. I've seen way too many women speak to their husbands in the most appalling and demeaning ways in public, and if the situation was reversed, people would be absolutely horrified (actually, I'm pretty horrified, but others don't seem to think it a big deal). And knowing what I do about masculine pride, I can't imagine what it does to their self-esteem.

    Certainly men deserve a large share of the blame for behaving like children, but women must admit playing at least some part; because if you treat a person like a child enough, they will behave that way. Now I'm a feminist myself and I think there is much to fight for in terms of equal rights for women, but I consider myself a human being first. If men are falling apart, even little boys in schools who haven't had a chance to learn the ins and outs of gender politics, something has to be done. We have to admit somehow society is failing men and we need to ask ourselves some questions about how and why. Shooting down every possible answer as a sexist attack on women, is not productive. Of course, I don't mean you should accept that whiny BS you see being spouted online, where men complain, "I was nice to her and then she refused to have sex with me (that bitch)". However you can't allow yourself hear this voice in your head every time a man tries to explain how he feel a little mistreated - that way madness lies my friends.
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  7. #97
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There are men who envy the choice women have. This is actually a discussion I've had with my wife, who will make considerably more money than me despite the fact that I'm an engineer with a graduate degree. I have considered the prospect of "staying at home with the kids", but interestingly, she would be less comfortable with that arrangement than me. She doesn't want a "loser", so she would rather hire a nanny. And even for me, I wouldn't feel comfortable being only a "househusband". I would HAVE to do something in addition to that, or else I know I would feel like I was lacking value.

    P.S. The italicized portion of my post is probably unnecessary, but I felt the need to add it because I have to demonstrate my value, lest someone consider me to be a "loser".
    Yeah that sort of talk denigrates both sexes. We can only hope things change further: that men will have more choices in the roles they take on and are not discriminated for them; and homemakers and stay at home parents are valued, regardless of their sex.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #98
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yeah that sort of talk denigrates both sexes. We can only hope things change further: that men will have more choices in the roles they take on and are not discriminated for them; and homemakers and stay at home parents are valued, regardless of their sex.
    Well, I believe there is a problem with homemaking in general. It requires significantly less time and effort due to our technology. In the past, there was simply more work to do while supervising and nurturing the children (not to mention that people are also having fewer children). Today, not so much. I think this leads to some women feeling unsatisfied with that role, as well.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #99
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, I believe there is a problem with homemaking in general. It requires significantly less time and effort due to our technology. In the past, there was simply more work to do while supervising and nurturing the children (not to mention that people are also having fewer children). Today, not so much. I think this leads to some women feeling unsatisfied with that role, as well.
    True to a degree, but child-rearing is very involving and higher level of attention is expected compared with previous generations (which is why intelligence is increasing - people spend more time developing their children's brains). Additionally, young children spending too much time at daycare (by virtue of having 2 parents in full time work) have started a trend of increased antisocial behaviour and empathy issues.

    I do agree that there need to be more to the lives of people that stay at home, but that goes for everyone.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #100
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    @Blank actually you're the one who seems angry at women. Quite frankly, as I stated, I had a very strong father figure. I know strong and valuable men. I also acknowledge that there are some men on the fringes who need help, but those dudes can get psychiatric care just like a woman can. There's also job core training for people don't who do well in school.

    ALL people are looked at for their usefulness, male and female, so I don't know what you're nattering on about. You seem to be under the impression that cooking, raising children, scrubbing floors and the like isn't work, which will probably come as an angry surprise to the chefs, cooks, teachers, daycare workers, nannies, and maids in our society. How dare you suggest that women didn't do anything before feminism, and how idiotic to further suggest that a stay at home dad isn't working or isn't useful.

    I don't think you get it at all. Mostly the upper class had the luxury of having women who did absolutely nothing, and almost just as frequently upper class men did nothing - a gentleman doesn't work, that's the original definition of a gentleman.

    Even Marx said all people should work and serve a purpose. Being a useless asshole who plays video games, or uses women for sex and doesn't pay child support isn't a victim - its a loser.

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