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  1. #81
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    ...I hope judging people for their race, age, gender and upbringing all in one comment is not something you make a habit of, especially if you continue to dismiss any attempts they have at hearing your point of view when they've expressed a willingness to listen. if you're not willing to listen to what the other party has to say, explain yourself or engage in an honest conversation, you should stop making snarky, disrespectful comments and judging people before you even give them a chance at communicating their point of view.
    I'm judging you based on ~7000 posts worth of your naive, misinformed opinions. I've argued with you enough to know that you have your mind made up on how the world works. the only reason I brought up your upbringing, is because the feminist movement is not a uniform thing, and that lower/working class women face more obstacles than women from more privileged, educated environments (which I recall you saying that both of your parents are college professors, meaning these are the women you've been exposed to and may be basing your views off of.) and I repped you something for you to think about.

    as far as respect, I give it to people who have earned it and show it back.

  2. #82
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    Okay, this is a fair point and I concede that men have made valuable contributions, historically, to the feminist movement.

    However, this doesn't give men the right to dismiss complaints by women on women's issues, which seems to be a major problem in this thread.
    which issues specifically?
    ex:
    legitimate issue: domestic violence
    trivial issue: should I wear jeans or a skirt

    of course we're going to dismiss the latter. it isn't important (that's like men debating over whether other men should have facial hair). the former is a more legitimate issue worthy of discussion. problem is, most feminists I've talked to don't seem to separate the legitimate issues from the fluffy, trivial issues (especially issues like the latter example, in which most of the judgment they receive for such choices is coming from other women)
    PS: as a side note, I've noticed a similar trend in the homosexual community and among many cultures. people tend to think they have all these external groups judging them when really the strongest hatred and judgement comes from their own. this is what I believe feminism has become in the last decade or so.
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  3. #83
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    What's feminist is wearing what you want. And being as sexy or as unclothed as you want. It is owning yourself and controlling your own life, while being responsible for the consequences of your actions.

    There are obviously some situations in which you wouldn't want to be nude, like your best friend's wedding- but ideally a feminist culture doesn't automatically sexualize women's bodies so much that nudity is considered an invitation for sex. We don't live in such an ideal society (like some native tribal cultures), but it is always good to keep ideals in mind and make small steps to get there. I model nude for artists, and it has been incredibly liberating.

  4. #84
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I'm judging you based on ~7000 posts worth of your naive, misinformed opinions. I've argued with you enough to know that you have your mind made up on how the world works. the only reason I brought up your upbringing, is because the feminist movement is not a uniform thing, and that lower/working class women face more obstacles than women from more privileged, educated environments (which I recall you saying that both of your parents are college professors, meaning these are the women you've been exposed to and may be basing your views off of.) and I repped you something for you to think about.
    as far as respect, I give it to people who have earned it and show it back.
    I have never seen you actually explain your point of view/argue a single time in any conversation on this forum (I'll spare the examples, especially those dealing with other forum members). you simply dismiss the other person's argument as closed minded, immature or, in this case, "naive" and bring up irrelevant details about their personal lives (which are wrong in this instance. neither of my parents are professors lol). truth is, I think you are afraid to actually back up and explain your claims because they are values that you hold with little to no ability to explain them logically or hold your own in a debate (which is what I'm after here at the moment. debates are fun; silly attempts at character assassination are not) so instead you try to take some sort of moral/experiential high ground and paint project your own problems onto the other person. if you want men to be more informed about feminism, then stop complaining when one is trying to prompt you to explain (explain as in, have a conversation, bring up points and discuss disagreements. not explain as in talk and label people as disrespectful adjectives when they disagree about anything)
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  5. #85
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I have never seen you actually explain your point of view/argue a single time in any conversation on this forum (I'll spare the examples, especially those dealing with other forum members). you simply dismiss the other person's argument as closed minded, immature or, in this case, "naive" and bring up irrelevant details about their personal lives (which are wrong in this instance. neither of my parents are professors lol). truth is, I think you are afraid to actually back up and explain your claims because they are values that you hold with little to no ability to explain them logically or hold your own in a debate (which is what I'm after here at the moment. debates are fun; silly attempts at character assassination are not) so instead you try to take some sort of moral/experiential high ground and paint project your own problems onto the other person. if you want men to be more informed about feminism, then stop complaining when one is trying to prompt you to explain (explain as in, have a conversation, bring up points and discuss disagreements. not explain as in talk and label people as disrespectful adjectives when they disagree about anything)
    Damn, she's not your mommy. Go read a book if you're so interested in the subject. Educate yourself!
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  6. #86
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    A typical self called feminist will protest against prostitution. A prostitute will call herself a feminist because she does whatever she wants with her body.

    The word has lost its meaning. It could basically mean anything. Ergo, I can't answer.
    Only to the extent that there is no collective opinion and consensus. It has gained in meaning in my opinion, because more women are internalizing it and forming their own interpretations of feminism. Having your own opinion and thought process on a subject doesn't negate it- in fact it makes it more real because there is more real understanding by individuals. Feminism means female freedom and empowerment, and equality of opportunity and resources is an application. The original principles of freedom and empowerment mean owning yourself as a woman, and translate to doing whatever you feel like and thinking whatever you want on how to achieve feminist goals.

  7. #87
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    heh not at all. i just see most human struggle through the lens of power imbalances.

    and i have observed that, when most people eventually get or earn what they have been struggling for (whether it is education, or freedom, or the right to wear certain clothing) something more noble is born from that achievement, and the struggle itself changes. they have changed.


    (this may help explain why great leaders, artists, philosophers write about the transformative nature of their struggles.)
    I quite agree.

  8. #88
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Damn, she's not your mommy. Go read a book if you're so interested in the subject.
    This. It is not the job of the marginalized group to educated the privileged group. Derailing much?
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  9. #89
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Damn, she's not your mommy. Go read a book if you're so interested in the subject. Educate yourself!
    was there a point to the first part of your comment?
    I would rather have a good conversation and have someone explain themselves when they make disrespectful, dismissive comments. I am an Ne dom, I would rather have a conversation than read something in a book. you cannot communicate and exchange differing points of view with a book (and I'm a slow reader. feminism has yet to prove worth 20+ hours of reading time)
    PS: this thread is a wonderful source of data for how people react to touchy subjects.
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  10. #90
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    This. It is not the job of the marginalized group to educated the privileged group. Derailing much?
    actually, yes it is. how is the privileged group supposed to understand the "marginalized" group (victim complex much?) if a member of the marginalized group doesn't make any attempt to explain clearly what their problems are in a rational discussion?
    Edit: case in point, how am I supposed to learn about the struggles of women when so few of them are willing to explain anything to me about it. just saying "women are oppressed" isn't an explanation. an explanation is why are they oppressed? how specifically are they oppressed? what are the root causes of this oppression?
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