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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    I don't think you understand the word "oppression". I'm also not surprised you use misogynistic language to make your point.

    Expecting one's mindset to change years of institutionalized discrimination is foolish and often dangerous.
    I could list the things I don't think you understand, but there is a character limit to posts.

  2. #52
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I could list the things I don't think you understand, but there is a character limit to posts.
    How smarmy! Mind addressing my point now?
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  3. #53
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    I've got a meeting I have to be at at 11am, but I'll get to you sometime today.

  4. #54
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    Who cares what is more "feminist"? The label means different things to different people. What's important is whether the action help or hinder the quest towards an equality of opportunities between the sexes.

    I think clothing doesn't matter, as long as women remember to strive to have their worth determined by more than just the degree to which men wants them for sex.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    i think the feminist choice would to let each individual woman decide what she'd rather wear.
    Only a certain sort of feminist though. I'd say that I'd endorse that sort of feminism but there are other sorts which would think otherwise.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Who cares what is more "feminist"? The label means different things to different people. What's important is whether the action help or hinder the quest towards an equality of opportunities between the sexes.
    I think clothing doesn't matter, as long as women remember to strive to have their worth determined by more than just the degree to which men wants them for sex.
    ^this. the fact that such a trivial decision has become a political argument is ridiculous in my opinion. feminists put more pressure on other women than most men do. the way they argue over the ideal details of women's lives is like high school all over again... I don't see what's so difficult about doing whatever the hell you want and not caring about the opinions of silly ideologues who get a false sense of self importance from arguing the "ideal" trivial details of people's lives (not directing this comment at anyone in this thread specifically)
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  7. #57
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Have you ever considered that when a person makes a misogynistic statement that it might not be the other people making them look like a jerk?
    That happens too. Problem is a lot of people are wired to see every unpopular idea as being misogynistic.

    "People making someone look like a jerk" means that they convince more people of that impression than would have had it without their statements. You feel they misinterpret?
    Quite often.

    My point is that statistically in the U.S. women who raise children on their own are more likely to pay their bills than to expect a man to do it. It is irrelevant whose "fault" or choice it is. You said that men pay the bills. I show one data set demonstrating that women pay bills.
    I was half-joking with that. I'm assuming you've read the ''who should pay on dates'' threads.

    Ever consider why men aren't marrying as many millionaire women to make them "pay the bills". Could it be that women are not getting equal pay - and even more to the point they aren't hired for the highest paid positions very often in the first place?
    I blame biology, but I won't be able to convince you.

    The fact that you have a stereotype that men are millionaires shows that you actually believe that men have more power than women.


    In this case there is evidence to show that most people in position of great power, influence, and wealth are in fact MEN.
    Yes, I made this concession in my argument.

    This is absolute proof of inequality.
    Maybe.

    There were many more statistics in that link and the point was to show that women do not have equality in society as you casually stated. There are more laws to protect the concept of equality for the genders, but most violent acts are committed by men, and most women who have been harmed have experienced this at the hands of a man. Men have an expectation of greater power than women in society and this is expressed in a variety of ways. This was one example.
    Are men more violent than women, on average? Yes, but that is a biological thing: no movement is gonna convince a violent man that he shouldn't beat his wife. But I will give you a way to trick biology:

    "On average"? Back it up with data.
    Really? Do I have to prove that women, on average, invest more time with their children than men?
    The statistics that demonstrate inequality of pay are not averaging out all income by men vs. women. The issue is "Equal pay for equal work". Women working out of the home to raise children would not be included in that data set. You believe that the income gap is narrowing and hold that position even when there is evidence to the contrary? Your belief is irrelevant. If you disagree with the statistics presented you need to show more convincing data that your position is correct or else revise your belief if you have a commitment to correctness in your thinking.
    I suspect that there's still a gap in the degree of specialization men and women have (which is starting to change) - and the statistics which you linked didn't cover that aspect at all. ''Equal work'' is a tricky concept. Do I have statistics to prove it? Nah, and I probably won't because this is the kind of data would be too inconvenient to be published.

    That's all, now I have to study.
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  8. #58
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    nothing gives me more faith in humanity than reading a bunch of men's opinions on feminism

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    nothing gives me more faith in humanity than reading a bunch of men's opinions on feminism
    this illustrates my point perfectly. the point of 21st century feminism seems to be an excuse to make comments like these. "pfft! men would never understand how we feel" it's designed to give a false sense of superiority. it probably didn't start out that way (1st and 2nd wave feminism were important and necessary) but it is now. your comment is dismissive and doesn't give any real insight into anything.
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  10. #60
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    I don't think the problem here is showing skin or not. It's the fact that pants are seen as male clothing, while they also represent a social norm. (It's acceptable for both sexes to wear pants, whereas skirts are only acceptable for women; excepting traditional clothing and special circumstances)

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