User Tag List

First 1725262728 Last

Results 261 to 270 of 279

  1. #261
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    6w7
    Posts
    3,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eruca View Post
    True. So make sure to keep that prefix attached, or take the time to draw the divide. This is important because radical feminists are very much in the minority (if we are to require they hold such a view to be so, for example). And are more often than not opposed by other, more popular, camps.
    Well my apologies, but I am taking a class on feminism right now in college. It is entitled, "The psychology of women" class, and I took it to better understand the female mind. However, the class really turned out to be "feminism 101" and I got suckered into the class. The class is really a tough pill to swallow, and the book that I read is so biased that it makes me want to just burn it with gasoline. Just about every chapter in the book talks about how hard women have it, and how easy men have it. The chapters all have encompassing theme of "men are evil and want to hold us back, oppose them at all costs"! The book basically fails to acknowledge that men have any problems at all, and that women are in constant suffering. Let me give you an example:

    I just read a chapter on marriage just a few weeks ago, and the chapter talked about what a raw deal that women get in marriage. It said that many women are expected to cook and clean, stay at home more often and take care of the children, and to step out of the spotlight and have a less prosperous career, while the husband works more and goes to school more so that he can have a much more prosperous career and can become the primary bread-winner in the family. The feminists then talk how awful this is that many women have to give up their opportunities for a great career so that there husband can have the better career. It also talked about what a devastating impact that a divorce would have on a woman because she was not allowed to put the same efforts into building as prosperous of a career as her husband. However, this is such a one-sided way to look at the issue to me. What about the husband? He also got the raw deal in this situation because he got screwed out of seeing his children as much because he was so busy providing for the family, while the wife got to see the kids all the time. Also, that sucks for the husband in the situation because he would lose half of his shit in the divorce because that's just how it goes: he would lose half of his shit that he worked hard for, and that the wife didn't work as hard to get. So there are two sides to that coin. In fact, there are two sides to every situation and the feminists often refuse to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    Your experience with feminists is not indicative of an entire people group. All the self-professed feminists I know (other than myself) are gay.
    However, it would be silly of me to assume that everyone who advocates equal rights for females is attracted to women.
    I would believe that. In fact, it seems like in every chapter, there it almost seems like there is hidden propaganda in the chapters to say, "Forget men and go and become a lesbian. You don't need men. All they do is hold you back anyway." Every chapter that I read talks about how awful life is when women are with men, and then they make sure and talk about how great lesbian relationships are as opposed to normal male-female relationships. For instance, going back to the last chapter that I read on marriage, it once again talked about how house hold up-keep and chores are dumped on women, while most men just skate by without doing that many chores. However, it made sure to dictate how in lesbian couples, there is a lot more equality in the relationship and that they tend to delegate chores equally.

    At the end of the day, I would say that the majority of feminists are just lesbos who are man-haters.

  2. #262
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I just think that feminists take it too far. I feel as though most feminists that I know, tend to think that men completely rule women, and that they need to LASH OUT against them.
    I think it's sad that radicals have completely coopted the label for you, in that case. But that is what I mean with the culture versus the philosophy.

    I just read a chapter on marriage just a few weeks ago, and the chapter talked about what a raw deal that women get in marriage. It said that many women are expected to cook and clean, stay at home more often and take care of the children, and to step out of the spotlight and have a less prosperous career, while the husband works more and goes to school more so that he can have a much more prosperous career and can become the primary bread-winner in the family. The feminists then talk how awful this is that many women have to give up their opportunities for a great career so that there husband can have the better career. It also talked about what a devastating impact that a divorce would have on a woman because she was not allowed to put the same efforts into building as prosperous of a career as her husband. However, this is such a one-sided way to look at the issue to me. What about the husband? He also got the raw deal in this situation because he got screwed out of seeing his children as much because he was so busy providing for the family, while the wife got to see the kids all the time. Also, that sucks for the husband in the situation because he would lose half of his shit in the divorce because that's just how it goes: he would lose half of his shit that he worked hard for, and that the wife didn't work as hard to get. So there are two sides to that coin. In fact, there are two sides to every situation and the feminists often refuse to see it.
    I think it is mostly a matter of "weighing" the two sides. Yes, there are drawbacks for men as well. And, IMO, the drawbacks for both genders stem from the same source of inequality. However, when you consider who has more drawbacks and restrictions - and most importantly, less empowerment - that's usually women. Men may be expected to become breadwinners, but at least for the most part they can leave a relationship without much penalty, have as many casual relationships as they please without label, live singly without being looked down upon as a failure, and so on. He is also typically celebrated if he does spend time with the family, whereas women who choose to work while raising children often face criticism. Also, is it fair to say that a woman staying home and raising kids is doing "less work" than a male breadwinner? I don't know that that is necessarily true.

    Again, totally agree that both sides can get shafted. But I think it's fairly safe to say the overall empowerment lies more with men in most parts of the world. And once you start seeing the real, often subtle effects in your life, it's hard not to be angry for a while, especially when men, who tend to be more privileged and empowered, deny that they can see any difference.

  3. #263
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think it's sad that radicals have completely coopted the label, in that case. At one point its meaning was something good and beneficial to humanity.
    Is it really just the so-called radicals? A few years ago Sweden ended its affirmative action program with university admissions because men were underrepresented so quotas demanded that some women be excluded. So affirmative action is okay when women are underrepresented. But when men are underrepresented, the program is discontinued? That's definitely feminism, but it's not what some people want to believe feminism is.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #264
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Is it really just the so-called radicals? A few years ago Sweden ended its affirmative action program with university admissions because men were underrepresented so quotas demanded that some women be excluded. So affirmative action is okay when women are underrepresented. But when men are underrepresented, the program is discontinued? That's definitely feminism, but it's not what some people want to believe feminism is.
    Lateralus, the definition of feminism (as activism) that I learned and that I do advocate personally is that of bringing the level of rights and respects afforded to females as a group to the same level with males. The idea is one of equality, not of denying men rights at the expense of women. In the past it made more sense to call it "feminism" because at the time women were in almost all situations inferior to men, at least in most European and non-native North American cultures.

    But, IMO, women bring themselves down if they deny men rights or respects. So to me the above is a bit of a "does not compute" situation. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the situation and do not feel right weighing in a "final" judgment on it but from what information you have presented, I would not call that feminism at all, just inequality.

  5. #265
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    6w7
    Posts
    3,461

    Default

    @skylights

    I think it's sad that radicals have completely coopted the label for you, in that case. But that is what I mean with the culture versus the philosophy.
    Maybe radicals have destroyed it for me. To tell the truth, I don't really know. However, it seems that the majority of feminists that I see are the radical kind. I'm not really sure what the other kind would look like. It's sort of like African Americans who stand up for black rights. You have some of them that are very respectable like Martin Luther King, for instance. He had a pacifistic protesting style for black rights and African Americans have him to thank for many of the civil liberties that they have today. However, then you have fuckers like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson for instance, who cry racism on everything (even when it's clearly not there) and just add fuel to the racist fire that is burning in America today.

    I believe that many feminists are like this as well. My problem with feminists is that I find often find that they often find things to be sexist, when sexism isn't even there. For instance, many feminists take it so far as to say that calling a woman "a chick" is highly offensive. How? How is that offensive? Now I can understand how calling a woman a ho, or a bitch would be offensive, but Chick....really? To tell, the truth, I would never want to date a feminist under any circumstances, because I think that it would be the relationship from hell.

    I think it is mostly a matter of "weighing" the two sides. Yes, there are drawbacks for men as well. And, IMO, the drawbacks for both genders stem from the same source of inequality. However, when you consider who has more drawbacks and restrictions - and most importantly, less empowerment - that's usually women. Men may be expected to become breadwinners, but at least for the most part they can leave a relationship without much penalty, have as many casual relationships as they please without label, live singly without being looked down upon as a failure, and so on. He is also typically celebrated if he does spend time with the family, whereas women who choose to work while raising children often face criticism. Also, is it fair to say that a woman staying home and raising kids is doing "less work" than a male breadwinner? I don't know that that is necessarily true.
    Are you kidding me? The man LOSES HIS ASS in a divorce. In the courtroom, the judges generally favor the woman in a divorce court. Men constantly lose half of everything that they own to a woman, and often times even have to wind up paying alimony to a woman as well. How many women do you see having to pay alimony to a man, as opposed to how many men you see having to pay alimony to a woman? Also, judges commonly favor the woman in the courtroom for child custody as well.

    Bottom line is....Men lose their ass in a divorce!

  6. #266
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    6w7
    Posts
    3,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Is it really just the so-called radicals? A few years ago Sweden ended its affirmative action program with university admissions because men were underrepresented so quotas demanded that some women be excluded. So affirmative action is okay when women are underrepresented. But when men are underrepresented, the program is discontinued? That's definitely feminism, but it's not what some people want to believe feminism is.
    Exactly.

  7. #267
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Is it really just the so-called radicals? A few years ago Sweden ended its affirmative action program with university admissions because men were underrepresented so quotas demanded that some women be excluded. So affirmative action is okay when women are underrepresented. But when men are underrepresented, the program is discontinued
    What happened after the affirmative action program was discontinued? Did women continue to outnumber men, or did the numbers of men increase again to equal or even surpass the numbers of women? It sounds like it might just be a PID control loop that hasn't been optimized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That's definitely feminism, but it's not what some people want to believe feminism is.
    So what is the fundamental, cosmic definition of feminism? I have yet to see any widespread agreement on the definition of feminism, which means that yes, different people will consider it to mean different things. The best way to avoid misunderstanding is to state your working definition before proceeding with an argument that involves it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #268
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    @skylightsMaybe radicals have destroyed it for me. To tell the truth, I don't really know. However, it seems that the majority of feminists that I see are the radical kind. I'm not really sure what the other kind would look like. It's sort of like African Americans who stand up for black rights. You have some of them that are very respectable like Martin Luther King, for instance. He had a pacifistic protesting style for black rights and African Americans have him to thank for many of the civil liberties that they have today. However, then you have fuckers like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson for instance, who cry racism on everything (even when it's clearly not there) and just add fuel to the racist fire that is burning in America today.
    Well, and it may be that you're not "seeing" the others because they don't speak as much at all. I consider myself a feminist given the definition I used above but I do not typically announce that - because in most social situations there is no reason to do so - nor associate myself with current movements because many of them don't seem to fit my style and beliefs. I think most of the empowered, compassionate young women I know would be feminists by my standards - advocating for women's equality. But it sort of gets hard for those of us who do see the need for more work to be done but don't feel in solidarity with the fringe who use the label "feminism" to take it, as I see it, too far. I'm sure the same issues exist within the black community and within other historically marginalized groups who seek greater social, cultural, and financial equality, as you referenced, the divide between the early styles of MLK and Malcolm X.

    I believe that many feminists are like this as well. My problem with feminists is that I find often find that they often find things to be sexist, when sexism isn't even there. For instance, many feminists take it so far as to say that calling a woman "a chick" is highly offensive. How? How is that offensive? Now I can understand how calling a woman a ho, or a bitch would be offensive, but Chick....really?
    I assume it's probably the diminutive nature of it that is offensive - we don't really go around calling men "pups" or anything. It's relegating women to something sweet and small, something of little consequence that hasn't been fully developed. I think it's all about those undertones.

    For me it's really all about attitude. My boyfriend and some of the guys I know can tease or do and say some things to women that aren't necessarily 100% "equal" - like calling women chicks - but if they demonstrate an underlying attitude of respect and equality towards women, then it's fine with me. As much as I am in favor of women's equality, I do embrace my femininity and I do like public recognition of that. IMO the important thing isn't the surface, it's the underlying mechanics. But then you have some guys who will treat women nicely in public, and then behind closed doors they're disparaging and hold personal beliefs that women are lesser. And that's what's not okay. It's about women being able to choose from the range of options - being able to be "chicks" if they want to or not if they don't.

    To tell, the truth, I would never want to date a feminist under any circumstances, because I think that it would be the relationship from hell.
    I would think a feminist would make a better girlfriend. Who wants to date someone who doesn't believe they're your equal? I want a partner, not a lackey. But yeah I feel you if you mean an aggressive feminist, I wouldn't be into an aggressive male-rightist either. I'm all for men's rights and having men be equal to women in areas such as clothing, childrearing, emotional expression, and so on, but anyone who's not on board with equality and is too slanted to either side can take a hike.

    Are you kidding me? The man LOSES HIS ASS in a divorce. In the courtroom, the judges generally favor the woman in a divorce court. Men constantly lose half of everything that they own to a woman, and often times even have to wind up paying alimony to a woman as well. How many women do you see having to pay alimony to a man, as opposed to how many men you see having to pay alimony to a woman? Also, judges commonly favor the woman in the courtroom for child custody as well.

    Bottom line is....Men lose their ass in a divorce!
    Stats on this? Perhaps this is true in some ares of the United States and Europe but for much of the developing world it's the woman who bears the burden both in financial and social terms, and certainly with children. There are also still some cultural stigmata that apply to divorced women and single mothers both in most cultures of the world that men do not typically endure.

  9. #269
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Stats on this? Perhaps this is true in some ares of the United States and Europe but for much of the developing world it's the woman who bears the burden both in financial and social terms, and certainly with children. There are also still some cultural stigmata that apply to divorced women and single mothers both in most cultures of the world that men do not typically endure.
    I really wish people would stop acting like the plight of women in third world countries is in any way the same as the plight of women in the US.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #270
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What happened after the affirmative action program was discontinued? Did women continue to outnumber men, or did the numbers of men increase again to equal or even surpass the numbers of women? It sounds like it might just be a PID control loop that hasn't been optimized.
    This happened quite recently, so I guess we'll have to wait to see the results.

    So what is the fundamental, cosmic definition of feminism? I have yet to see any widespread agreement on the definition of feminism, which means that yes, different people will consider it to mean different things. The best way to avoid misunderstanding is to state your working definition before proceeding with an argument that involves it.
    There is no "cosmic definition". Sweden is a nation that has a strong feminist influence. I assume that if they have enough influence to change national laws in Sweden that they must not be radicals. Therefore, this must be a mainstream feminist policy in Sweden.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

Similar Threads

  1. What is more important protest or voluntary work?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-21-2017, 01:36 PM
  2. What's more important? Duty, Honor or Love?
    By highlander in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 118
    Last Post: 01-02-2017, 04:01 AM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-19-2016, 06:55 AM
  4. Who Is More the Buffoon: Obama or Bush II?
    By Mal12345 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-01-2014, 12:42 PM
  5. Replies: 54
    Last Post: 08-01-2011, 07:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO