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  1. #151
    Señora Member Elfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    I think you mean !
    It's a mix of funny and sad.

    D;D

  2. #152
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Don't think you're too special, though. This is how all gender/feminism threads eventually get. It's a cycle.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #153
    Señora Member Elfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Don't think you're too special, though. This is how all gender/feminism threads eventually get. It's a cycle.
    It's good to know. I'll be more cautious to open a thread next time.

  4. #154
    Reigning Bologna Princess Rajah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy
    You missed the point.
    If your point is that you refuse to beat a dead horse (I refuse to search for the emoticon), you're doing a dreadful job of making it.

    Incidentally, comparing your situation to angering a religious extremist is unavailing. But hilarious.


    I... suppose. Yeah!

  5. #155
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    You missed the point.
    This kind of approach of implying a position of superiority without explanation works well to gain dominance in personal relationships because it is passive aggressive, but for casual readers of posts it does not provide a convincing argument for your position.

    By making a comparison between this debate about feminism/gender inequality to religious extremist groups is to make use of a well used meme that says, "women are hysterical and unreasonable". It is opportunistic to draw on the larger resource of dismissal of women to make your position seem stronger, but you had to resort to it because you were unable to win the debate using facts and reason.

    I made some errors in my argument including asking for evidence for your assumption that more women are caretakers in the home, and I used stronger speech than I usually do which I know puts people on the defensive and doesn't foster clear, objective debate from the opponent, and so that was not as productive as it could have been. I hope at some point you can step back and understand why your initial statement triggered these responses, and consider an explanation that doesn't draw comparisons to suicide bombers. Flippant dismissal of serious issues without any facts and without any appearance of a genuine attempt to understand the issues will trigger this response from any individuals who have concern and investment in a topic.

    If I make flippant dismissive statements about all men, feel free to call me on it, and I will concede the point because it is unfair and unreasoned to do such a thing.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  6. #156
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    This kind of approach of implying a position of superiority without explanation works well to gain dominance in personal relationships because it is passive aggressive, but for casual readers of posts it does not provide a convincing argument for your position.

    By making a comparison between this debate about feminism/gender inequality to religious extremist groups is to make use of a well used meme that says, "women are hysterical and unreasonable". It is opportunistic to draw on the larger resource of dismissal of women to make your position seem stronger, but you had to resort to it because you were unable to win the debate using facts and reason.

    I made some errors in my argument including asking for evidence for your assumption that more women are caretakers in the home, and I used stronger speech than I usually do which I know puts people on the defensive and doesn't foster clear, objective debate from the opponent, and so that was not as productive as it could have been. I hope at some point you can step back and understand why your initial statement triggered these responses, and consider an explanation that doesn't draw comparisons to suicide bombers. Flippant dismissal of serious issues without any facts and without any appearance of a genuine attempt to understand the issues will trigger this response from any individuals who have concern and investment in a topic.

    If I make flippant dismissive statements about all men, feel free to call me on it, and I will concede the point because it is unfair and unreasoned to do such a thing.
    THIS!!!!
    (though I've been experiencing it from the other side)
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  7. #157
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I just read this thread and now I'm sad.

  8. #158
    Reigning Bologna Princess Rajah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I just read this thread and now I'm sad.
    BUT THERE WAS A SNOOKI QUOTE.

    And it proved I'm wicked educated.


    I... suppose. Yeah!

  9. #159
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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  10. #160
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh no, we've inflicted him on them!

    I bet you think you have something really really important to say based on your fifteen minutes of skimming 101-level material, don't you?
    Well, to be fair, the talking points I've mentioned are all stuff I read on blogs, and no one seems to have called me out yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I think the concept of matriarchy can also be applied to the home and to systems like our education system as well though, even if not technically, I believe the principle still applies.
    I'd also like to address the difference between gender roles and gender differences
    for example
    gender role: "A lady doesn't pursue a man"
    gender difference: men are more likely to want to make the first move; women usually like to be pursued and protected
    a role is a predefined set of behavioral expectations; a difference is simply a discrepancy between the trends of two different groups (for instance, aggression levels in men vs women

    it's true, nurturing and caring are traits shared by homo sapiens across the board. so are traits like strength and ambition, but I would argue their are differences. men have higher testosterone and serotonin levels which are linked to aggression, ambition and competitive, so patriarchal structures tend to overly hierarchical, cut throat and oppressive in nature. conversely, women have higher estrogen levels and other hormones which are linked to traits like cooperation, caring for young children and communication. hence, in structures with predominantly female authority figures, these traits tend to be over stressed whereas traits like competitiveness and ambition tend to be discouraged (this is very prevalent in modern American schools)
    of course, correlation does not equal causation and the correlations here are far from direct (I for instance, am a male who prides himself of being very good with children as well as one who is not very competitive at all.), but on average there are differences in male and female brain chemistry and communication style that tend to crop up in less than ideal ways when there is a power imbalance of some kind between the genders.
    The problem is, those tendencies are being applied to the individual and to the group as a whole, and also being made into social norms, which creates a kind of vicious circle... Which, in turn, denies the fundamental variability of temperament of men and women alike.

    Not only that, but, even though, by that very reasoning, both sexes have something to contribute (heaven forbid someone pursue something achetypically other-sex-oriented!), that is not how things do turn out: women do the unpaid, unglamorous job, men do the job that brings wealth and fame, and the power scale tips significantly.
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

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