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  1. #131
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    This thread is a moron.
    Whoops.

  2. #132
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh no, we've inflicted him on them!

    I bet you think you have something really really important to say based on your fifteen minutes of skimming 101-level material, don't you?
    yes, I do. I'm discussing it with @raine_lynn at the moment. I don't get all of them yet of course, but the concepts are not difficult to grasp. now if you'd stop making disrespectful comments and baseless accusations, I would appreciate it. your attempts to demean me are laughable and a waste of both our times.
    @chana
    - I am reading a blog about feminism right now, so obviously I'm not as lazy as you accuse me of being.
    - but it is your responsibility to explain yourself when you make condescending remarks. you make this assumption that everyone who disagrees with you is immature and would never understand even if explained it to them. if you don't want to explain, then don't go around judging people.
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  3. #133
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I think the problem goes both ways though. for instance, I think that the social structure (not necessarily the legal system) of the United States is becoming increasingly matriarchal and that this is a problem as well (most school teachers are female, the number of children being raised by single mothers). matriarchal structures, in my opinion, tend to undermine traits like competition, ambition and high productivity, that are also necessary for a prosperous, free society. things tend to go to shit when there is an imbalance of influence of one gender over the other in any institution.
    Gender roles are a function of the patriarchy. Women are overwhelming considered the primary caregivers due to the fact that they are seen as nurturing (which is a human quality, not a female one) - the laws and social structure back this up. Likewise, competition, ambition, and productivity are not singularly male qualities, and it's very misogynistic to say so.
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  4. #134
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    Gender roles are a function of the patriarchy. Women are overwhelming considered the primary caregivers due to the fact that they are seen as nurturing (which is a human quality, not a female one) - the laws and social structure back this up. Likewise, competition, ambition, and productivity are not singularly male qualities, and it's very misogynistic to say so.
    I don't think they're exclusively male qualities, but I am saying that matriarchal societies tend to discourage these characteristics.
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  5. #135
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    This thread...

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  6. #136
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    how do you tell if they're educated feminists or not?
    you said yourself you haven't even read a book or studied about feminism for more than 20 hours.
    - the ones that I deemed educated where ones that either studied/were studying feminism in college or sited books they've read on the subject (I don't remember which specifically, but that isn't important for the sake of this point).
    - however, the majority of the feminists I've talked to were the uneducated variety. they are generally the ones I have a problem with. talking to them is like trying to talk to raging fundamentalists christians and I feel like they add more to discrimination and oppressive social norms than they fight against.
    - I've spent far more than 20 hours discussing with at least semi educated people about feminism and watched a few documentaries, so I'm not completely uneducated, though I see your point (that's part of why I'm wanting to discuss it in the first place)
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  7. #137
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I don't think they're exclusively male qualities, but I am saying that matriarchal societies tend to discourage these characteristics.
    A matriarchy is a society in which females, especially mothers, have the central roles of political leadership, moral authority, and control of property.
    from Wikipedia

    We don't live in a matriarchal society. The reasons that women tend to be single parent heads of household and/or teachers (but not, notably, professors or academics), are due to patriarchy supported gender roles.
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  8. #138
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    from Wikipedia
    We don't live in a matriarchal society. The reasons that women tend to be single parent heads of household and/or teachers (but not, notably, professors or academics), are due to patriarchy supported gender roles.
    I think the concept of matriarchy can also be applied to the home and to systems like our education system as well though, even if not technically, I believe the principle still applies.
    I'd also like to address the difference between gender roles and gender differences
    for example
    gender role: "A lady doesn't pursue a man"
    gender difference: men are more likely to want to make the first move; women usually like to be pursued and protected
    a role is a predefined set of behavioral expectations; a difference is simply a discrepancy between the trends of two different groups (for instance, aggression levels in men vs women

    it's true, nurturing and caring are traits shared by homo sapiens across the board. so are traits like strength and ambition, but I would argue their are differences. men have higher testosterone and serotonin levels which are linked to aggression, ambition and competitive, so patriarchal structures tend to overly hierarchical, cut throat and oppressive in nature. conversely, women have higher estrogen levels and other hormones which are linked to traits like cooperation, caring for young children and communication. hence, in structures with predominantly female authority figures, these traits tend to be over stressed whereas traits like competitiveness and ambition tend to be discouraged (this is very prevalent in modern American schools)
    of course, correlation does not equal causation and the correlations here are far from direct (I for instance, am a male who prides himself of being very good with children as well as one who is not very competitive at all.), but on average there are differences in male and female brain chemistry and communication style that tend to crop up in less than ideal ways when there is a power imbalance of some kind between the genders.
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  9. #139
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - the ones that I deemed educated where ones that either studied/were studying feminism in college or sited books they've read on the subject (I don't remember which specifically, but that isn't important for the sake of this point).
    - however, the majority of the feminists I've talked to were the uneducated variety. they are generally the ones I have a problem with. talking to them is like trying to talk to raging fundamentalists christians and I feel like they add more to discrimination and oppressive social norms than they fight against.
    - I've spent far more than 20 hours discussing with at least semi educated people about feminism and watched a few documentaries, so I'm not completely uneducated, though I see your point (that's part of why I'm wanting to discuss it in the first place)
    how do you know they cited the books correctly if you haven't read them?
    and how do you study feminism in college? burn a bra at the freshman bonfire?
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  10. #140
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    how do you know they cited the books correctly if you haven't read them?
    and how do you study feminism in college? burn a bra at the freshman bonfire?
    - the fact that they even site books in the first place tells me they're probably at least somewhat educated.
    - ever heard of women's studies? that's what I'm referring to
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