User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 25

  1. #1

    Default "what someone makes is a pretty good proxy for how much society values that person"

    I read this on the commentary about income inequality in response to a slide show:
    Keep in mind that what someone makes is a pretty good proxy for how much society values that person.
    What is your opinion of the accuracy of that statement?

    Is there ANY truth to the statement?

    What do you believe prompted the person to make the comment? (you can read the slide show and commentary for context).

    If the the statement is true, what does it tell you about how much we value education:
    http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Teacher&l1=
    or science:
    http://www.indeed.com/salary/Scientist.html
    or engineering:
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Engineer&l1=
    or health:
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=doctor&l1=
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=nurse&l1=

    as opposed to finance:
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=stock+broker&l1=
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=trader&l1=
    (especially when you consider how much of what they do is B.S.):
    http://www.marketbeaters.com/beat-the-market/
    http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/25/inv...r-ferri_2.html
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/1433...-at-what-price

    and executive management:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_pay
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=CEO&l1=
    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=vice+president&l1=
    http://www.deallawwire.com/2012/04/0...-down-economy/

    http://projects.nytimes.com/executiv...#nytint-bottom
    ?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #2
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    While I think there is a lot of truth to that, I think one thing that is missing is the amount of intrinsic reward some jobs bring. If a job is intrinsically rewarding (enjoyable, expressive, meaningful or otherwise non-monetarily beneficial), people are going to be willing to do it for less money. Some less financially rewarding jobs involve teaching and caring for others. Those types of jobs attract people who want a meaningful career and to make positive difference.

    I feel like in the US, we take advantage of that by underpaying for many of those jobs. This means that some people who would make great teachers end up doing other things, because they can't afford to raise a family and send their kids to college on a teacher's salary.

    Fundamentally, though, I think CEO pay and the related "superstar effect" on compensation are somewhat separate issues from teacher pay. It would be possible to not have 100x+ pay for CEOs yet still have teachers be underpaid.

    I have seen a shift in my lifetime towards a greater emphasis on image over substance (I sound like a grumpy old man!), and a greater assumption that the rich and powerful are always deservingly so. It's like the protestant work ethic, minus a moral framework but turned up to 11.

  3. #3
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    xNTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    You could be a Chinese porn star in an open relationship and charge a premium per client and have different rates for different partners and lead a jet setter life and make anywhere from $40, 000 USD per month. chinagirl4u , she's cool.
    Some other mature forum I joined once where I met her, befriended her; because of her, I'd never look at the word 'fun' the same way again - She is FUN! FUN! FUN!

    I haven't spoken with her in months though , so it's kind of odd being reminded of her, but, I am. This thread actually reminds me of her; all that money, but the way how soceity may view her, despite her being smart, funny and, stuff.

  4. #4
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    estj
    Enneagram
    378 sx/so
    Socionics
    esfp
    Posts
    3,038

    Default

    I don't think he meant it quite so literally. Hyperbole to make a point.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #5
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    6w7
    Posts
    3,461

    Default

    Of course this is true. Look our celebrities for God's sake. They are practically worshiped.

  6. #6

    Default

    I'm not sure if wage necessarily equates to societal value (mainly since that's such a difficult notion to pin down). But, also, I think economists/business people make more money overall because, on a very basic level, their profession is money. While scientists and engineers need money for their endeavors, their goals lie elsewhere outside of its accrual.

    I actually wish that people got paid based on how valuable they were to society. That way teachers, scientists and blue collar workers would make more money, since I do believe that the average Joe probably values them more than some guy on Wall Street.

    But the very nature of a job that makes money off of money throws that ideal system out of whack.

  7. #7
    Insert witty line here... Ponyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    398

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    I actually wish that people got paid based on how valuable they were to society. That way teachers, scientists and blue collar workers would make more money, since I do believe that the average Joe probably values them more than some guy on Wall Street.

    But the very nature of a job that makes money off of money throws that ideal system out of whack.
    I think the average Joe is the most valuable part of our society (and the careers you listed I consider average Joe, except maybe scientists (and thats just because I don't really know what they do, I know it varies)).

    I think the problem that allows for the last part is due to government deregulation of the financial industry but that is probably an argument better suited for another time and place although I think that ultimately that is a large part of the disparity. But I just fully reread it and I agree.
    I'm never wrong, I'm just sometimes less right

  8. #8
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    I'd say the statement can be considered sketchy - and I'm being generous.

    It would partially make sense if the labor market was a perfectly competitive market with a natural tendency towards pareto-optimality. However, we do know that such market is likely the most problematic among those creating our (theoretical) general equilibrium: search costs, big initial differentials in wealth, asymmetric information problems, myopic laws, large importance of personal relationship create a picture which is far off from what we could neoclassically call "the equivalence between the marginal productivity of your labor and your marginal wage". I would go as far as saying that many jobs may have a negative marginal productivity - i.e. the wage they'd be paid in a free market would be negative.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #9
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    I'm not sure if wage necessarily equates to societal value (mainly since that's such a difficult notion to pin down). But, also, I think economists/business people make more money overall because, on a very basic level, their profession is money. While scientists and engineers need money for their endeavors, their goals lie elsewhere outside of its accrual.

    I actually wish that people got paid based on how valuable they were to society. That way teachers, scientists and blue collar workers would make more money, since I do believe that the average Joe probably values them more than some guy on Wall Street.

    But the very nature of a job that makes money off of money throws that ideal system out of whack.
    This is what I believe.

    A teacher once told me....

    A wall street economist once belittled her for how little money she makes. He makes enough money to "Live the life."

    In response? She said, "I teach for a living. I teach for the future of this nation. For every 30 students I teach, they may become something great for the future. What do you do? You shuffle money." That, she said, completely shut the guy up.

  10. #10
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    what if a small group that isnt economically powerful idolize someone and generate low income ?
    what if a million people value someone a little and generate alot of income?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

Similar Threads

  1. To what extent do you shape your own destiny, and how much is down to fate?
    By lightsun in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-24-2017, 10:35 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-29-2010, 04:34 PM
  3. could someone tell me what "on vent" is please?
    By skylights in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-29-2010, 10:23 AM
  4. Life is what you make of it ?
    By vince in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-05-2010, 01:22 PM
  5. Is INTP a good type for doctor?
    By deepthought in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-01-2009, 11:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO