User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 34

  1. #11
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I agree with what I highlighted in your post, not really the rest of it because I dont really accept it for fact, I also think its strange that your post in response to material which highlights the exclusivity and rejection corresponding to the gay identity by those who once belonged to it and then found out they didnt is all about validating the homosexual identity.

    I'm all for the time when people are defined as people and not their sexual orientation, I dont see the many gay identity or welfare groups are contributing to the time when that'll be the case.

    I dont see the fact that heterosexuality is normative as injurious to the homosexual minority, its not a deliberate effort at social engineering, just a reflection of how most people are and experience life, I'm unconvinced that messing with that will benefit homosexuals but this newspiece would suggest that it does have consequences which are not beneficial for heterosexuals.
    Heterosexuality is normative only in the sense that it describes the majority. The word "normative" often has a prescriptive sense about it. I would disagree with that in this context. It is when normative becomes prescriptive that gays (or any similarly identifiable group) suffers.

    My post was not "all about validating the homosexual identity". It is about validating each individual's identity, whether that be heterosexual, gay, bi, asexual, etc. People who claim a gay identity when that is not their actual orientation are as misguided as those who pretend to be straight when they are in fact gay. It can be hard to figure out what the real "you" is, however, when there is a background social pressure to do A, and a vocal, enthusiastic minority demonstrating B. That phenomenon is hardly limited to sexual orientation, though. As I said, any side that sets itself up as an "us against them" does more harm than good.
    Last edited by Coriolis; 06-15-2012 at 07:12 PM. Reason: corrected wrong term
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Heterosexuality is normative only in the sense that it describes the majority. The word "normative" often has a prescriptive sense about it. I would disagree with that in this context. It is when normative becomes prescriptive that gays (or any similarly identifiable group) suffers.

    My post was not "all about validating the homosexual identity". It is about validating each individual's identity, whether that be heterosexual, gay, bi, asexual, etc. People who claim a gay identity when that is not their actual orientation are as misguided as those who pretend to be straight when they are in fact gay. It can be hard to figure out what the real "you" is, however, when there is a background social pressure to do A, and a vocal, enthusiastic minority demonstrating B. That phenomenon is hardly limited to gender identification, though. As I said, any side that sets itself up as an "us against them" does more harm than good.
    I dont think when you have a radio piece which discusses a topic like this, in the way it does, then lists a half dozen welfare and support groups which are all exclusively non-heterosexual the second point of your post doesnt make any sense. Perhaps that's what a lot of well meaning liberals or others are hoping is playing our or will play out but its objectively not the case.

    Perhaps there is a prescriptive dimension to what is normative, I dont think its going to cause homosexuals that much suffering and if it does then maybe that's just one of those things, would causing the majority of heterosexuals to experience the same sort of suffering improve anyones lot? I doubt it.

  3. #13
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think when you have a radio piece which discusses a topic like this, in the way it does, then lists a half dozen welfare and support groups which are all exclusively non-heterosexual the second point of your post doesnt make any sense. Perhaps that's what a lot of well meaning liberals or others are hoping is playing our or will play out but its objectively not the case.

    Perhaps there is a prescriptive dimension to what is normative, I dont think its going to cause homosexuals that much suffering and if it does then maybe that's just one of those things, would causing the majority of heterosexuals to experience the same sort of suffering improve anyones lot? I doubt it.
    What do you expect - that the radio show would list the entire spectrum of welfare and support groups available in the community? A show focused on the gay community will feature services relevant to that population, just as a show focused on Latinos or college students or the deaf would highlight services relevant to them.

    Now just substitute "blacks" and "whites" for "homosexuals" and "heterosexuals" in your second paragraph and see how much sense it makes. Tolerance is not a zero sum game. Alleviating the suffering of one group does not require another to suffer in its place.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2w1 so/sx
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Two things.
    One, Bisexuals exist, some think they're hetero, some think they're homo, but they're all bisexuals from the get-go.
    Two, doesn't matter if you're gay/bi/straight, just enjoy yourself, whether it's a choice or not doesn't matter, it doesn't hurt anyone.
    A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  5. #15
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    xNTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    According to the officical ilikeitlikethat dictionary, a hasbian is a person who is a 'has been'. IDK

  6. #16
    Senior Member lauranna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    According to the officical ilikeitlikethat dictionary, a hasbian is a person who is a 'has been'. IDK
    Hasbian is an excellent word used for girls who used to be gay.

  7. #17
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lauranna View Post
    Hasbian is an excellent word used for girls who used to be gay.
    "Used to be gay"?? I shudder to think how such a condition would come about. I thought people's sexual orientation was more-or-less a matter of how their brain was wired.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #18
    Senior Member lauranna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    747

    Default

    @Lark
    In response to the OP, basically some people are straight for years until one day they suddenly aren't , and similarly some people are gay for years until one day they suddenly aren't. there are a million and one different reasons for this but normally it comes down to them unexpectedly finding someone of the other/ or same gender attractive. And there is no saying who we will meet that we find attractive. Sometimes people are at a point in their lives to act on this attraction and sometimes they aren't. If you are open minded by nature you can potentially change gay-straight-gay in your actions. This is why i am not into labels. They are so limiting and your desire to put people in boxes is totally needless.

    I actually was really attracted to a guy last summer. We were both in relationships so didn't act on it but I'm open minded so the potential for change is there. But 99.999% of the time I fancy women.

    It is hard for anyone to come out when they are changing things either way because people are shocked, but they get over it.

    We reserve the right to mock them and call them Hasbians for the rest of forever though.

  9. #19
    Senior Member lauranna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    "Used to be gay"?? I shudder to think how such a condition would come about. I thought people's sexual orientation was more-or-less a matter of how their brain was wired.
    Well how the brain is wired is the foremost defining factor but there are millions of reasons why people's actions don't match their most basic desires. Ultimately all you see on the surface are a persons actions/ public persona to judge their sexuality, what goes on in their head can be so much more complex.

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lauranna View Post
    @Lark
    In response to the OP, basically some people are straight for years until one day they suddenly aren't , and similarly some people are gay for years until one day they suddenly aren't. there are a million and one different reasons for this but normally it comes down to them unexpectedly finding someone of the other/ or same gender attractive. And there is no saying who we will meet that we find attractive. Sometimes people are at a point in their lives to act on this attraction and sometimes they aren't. If you are open minded by nature you can potentially change gay-straight-gay in your actions. This is why i am not into labels. They are so limiting and your desire to put people in boxes is totally needless.

    I actually was really attracted to a guy last summer. We were both in relationships so didn't act on it but I'm open minded so the potential for change is there. But 99.999% of the time I fancy women.

    It is hard for anyone to come out when they are changing things either way because people are shocked, but they get over it.

    We reserve the right to mock them and call them Hasbians for the rest of forever though.
    Gotta love those "fun" double standards.

    Anyway, I'm not desiring to put people in boxes, it sounds from the whole of this article that this is in fact what the homosexuals in the UK were/are doing and it that community and identity which has been limiting but instead of deal with that you did what is comfortable to you and turn it around on me and suggest that's what I'm doing.

    I dont think this is a case of people can and do fancy either sex, like I've said already it seems me much more like the natural and underlying heterosexuality asserted itself but they experienced trouble because they were so alienated from the same.

    Now this is something a know a lot of the pro-gay movement arent able to handle, its alright when it hetero norms are portrayed as repressive and oppressive but when it looks like the converse can be true its no good.

    Given the break down of the population, the simple number crunching, that's got bigger consequences than any of the well meaning sorts or long suffering homosexuals campaigning for the spread of homosexuality are really ready to handle.

Similar Threads

  1. ISTJ Quote of the day (6/6/12)
    By Mal12345 in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 06-20-2012, 04:31 PM
  2. Long - the quotes of lovable larrikin, Nobel physicist Richard Feynman
    By InsatiableCuriosity in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-02-2010, 11:18 PM
  3. [NF] Plight of the NF male.
    By Angry Ayrab in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 198
    Last Post: 02-24-2010, 11:08 AM
  4. Google Quote of the Day
    By VagrantFarce in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-09-2009, 06:45 PM
  5. [INFJ] INFJ Favorite Quote of the Day
    By lillyofthevalley in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 12-01-2009, 05:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO