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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Well, to some. My grandfather was a black man and he could not understand the enduring use of the word. [...]

    Point is, assuming even if the word among black culture is universally understood, it is most definitely not universally agreed upon.
    Yeah, I think your anecdote about your grandfather helps illustrate the divisions within the black community itself over use of the word "nigger." As I pointed out in my post, the black underclass uses the word to distinguish itself from the disapproving middle- and upper-class blacks as much as from whites.

    The following isn’t specifically about the word “nigger,” but it’s kind of along the same line:

    In a famous scene from the movie “Raw,” Eddie Murphy describes how Bill Cosby (black middle-class background) telephoned Murphy and chastised him for vulgarity in his comedy acts. Murphy, of course, identifies with the vulgar black underclass, so his response was “Fuck you.” Here's the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkrqc...eature=related

  2. #82
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Growing up I did not understand this.

    I thought anyone could be "racist", as in anyone could be prejudiced by race. Which is true, but is usually not the definition used regarding racial matters in the United States. Now I realize the other definition of racism, where you have prejudice by race, coupled with institutional and social power to enforce that prejudice.

    I really wish this were explained more often. There are a ton of confused white kids out there that don't realize there are two definitions.
    Agreed, it can be confusing when the meaning isn't specified, even though context helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    First, to the bolded: it's only a moving target because "the minorities" are actually, you know, just people. Individuals. They don't have a hive mind and they're not obligated to all share the same opinion just because they share a racial identity.
    It gets even muddier when you're talking about words like "lame", "bitch", "crazy", "insane", "idiotic", etc. Sometimes not even members of the arginalized group find them offensive, so there's less consensus to what the "common sense approach" should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    It is an attractive notion, yeah. But we really, really aren't there yet, so usually when white people say "I'm colorblind! just like Dr. King!" I am skeptical and figure they just mean they are never forced to think about race, so they don't. I'm not an exception to this. I still find myself going days, even weeks sometimes without thinking about race, which in our current environment I can do because it's not an issue for me in day-to-day life. I'm almost guaranteed to be in the majority in any group of people I find myself in. It's exceedingly rare for me to be the only person of my race in a group. I don't have to think about race. I do sometimes, usually on purpose, or on rare occasions I find myself in an uncomfortable situation because of race. I don't think we'll ever really be "post-racial," and I'm actually not sure it's really the ultimate ideal to never notice differences. But you're right that it sure would be awesome if everyone could only think about race when it suited them.
    If there's no people of color, there's no racism. Problem solved!
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  3. #83
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    I think it's more likely the people offended by Paltrow were white.

    Niggas don't follow Gwyneth Paltrow.
    wails from the crypt.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    No, no, no. That is a weak excuse. Context is everything. A white person does not recite lyrics in public with the word "nigga". For the same reason you don't recite lyrics with "motherfucker" in front of children or misogynistic lyrics to your mother.
    Yea I don't curse in front of kids (except accidentally) and I generally don't recite lyrics in front of my mother, but I have and do recite rap lyrics accurately in front of my friends, some of whom are black.

    I haven't had any push back on this.

    I'm going to sing the song the way its written.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yea I don't curse in front of kids (except accidentally) and I generally don't recite lyrics in front of my mother, but I have and do recite rap lyrics accurately in front of my friends, some of whom are black.
    Again, not talking about friends.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Yeah, I think your anecdote about your grandfather helps illustrate the divisions within the black community itself over use of the word "nigger." As I pointed out in my post, the black underclass uses the word to distinguish itself from the disapproving middle- and upper-class blacks as much as from whites.

    The following isn’t specifically about the word “nigger,” but it’s kind of along the same line:

    In a famous scene from the movie “Raw,” Eddie Murphy describes how Bill Cosby (black middle-class background) telephoned Murphy and chastised him for vulgarity in his comedy acts. Murphy, of course, identifies with the vulgar black underclass, so his response was “Fuck you.” Here's the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkrqc...eature=related
    On that note this is one of the reasons Chappelle did not come back for his show. He thought his largely white audience had gotten too comfortable with saying and laughing at the use of the N word and basically it had turned into a minstrel show. Other black people he knew gave him a lot of shit for it. He was achieving the Totally the opposite of what his show had intended to do, which was to challenge and breakdown racism through humor.

    Mass media and entertainment, which black people have always been a prominent figure in the US, makes the issue of "reclaiming words" much much trickier. Since popular culture is meant to be consumed the economic goal of any piece of entertainment is to get as wide of an audience as possible and there is very little higher brain functioining going on if you are the average consumer you aren't going to think or care about things like privilege or racism or intended audience you're just going to mimic what you see and spit it out whole, regardless of the context.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  7. #87
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    to those believing that this sort of thing isn't going to die: have you being to the turtle continent lately? from my exp, throughout my years in the US and canada, almost every other couple you see is of mixed race, i know i prefer women from other races, the whole thing is falling apart, do you really think our 1/32 black grandchildren will be shoved into apologies for offending their 1/8 black neighbors? i'm not saying white people are going to die out, i'm sure there's going to be some irish on german action for a good while (although would be funny if inner-racial relationships became a taboo), but they are becoming an apparent minority, for the stupid reason that any mixed white + something else is largely considered something else. you really think we're going to keep race exclusive anything when everything is mixed race?

  8. #88

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    ^This has been on my mind. The futility of slurs is partly that the division is short-sighted in an increasingly changing world. It will eventually be defunct. It is just a matter of when, not if.

    Regrettably, humans will always find ways to segregate and "elevate" themselves above others, thus eliciting a counter-effort.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    to those believing that this sort of thing isn't going to die: have you being to the turtle continent lately? from my exp, throughout my years in the US and canada, almost every other couple you see is of mixed race, i know i prefer women from other races, the whole thing is falling apart, do you really think our 1/32 black grandchildren will be shoved into apologies for offending their 1/8 black neighbors? i'm not saying white people are going to die out, i'm sure there's going to be some irish on german action for a good while (although would be funny if inner-racial relationships became a taboo), but they are becoming an apparent minority, for the stupid reason that any mixed white + something else is largely considered something else. you really think we're going to keep race exclusive anything when everything is mixed race?
    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    ^This has been on my mind. The futility of slurs is partly that the division is short-sighted in an increasingly changing world. It will eventually be defunct. It is just a matter of when, not if.

    Regrettably, humans will always find ways to segregate and "elevate" themselves above others, thus eliciting a counter-effort.
    I don't think those considerations apply here, though. This particular issue isn’t about a majority using a slur to marginalize a minority. Again, I would say that it’s a question of a small underclass appropriating an old slur in order to create an identity separate from “the establishment"; that is, an identity separate from whites and even separate from the majority of their own race.

    Even Jesus said, “You’ll always have the poor with you.” As long as you have underclasses and a love for slang, that’s not going away. The slur doesn’t have to be technically correct or even particularly make sense. IMO, the current use of "nigger" by the black underclass is more about economic class than it is about race.

  10. #90
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Completely useless contribution: This thread reminds of me Clerks 2

    [YOUTUBE="dWdVwt2deY4"]Clerks 2 - Porch Monkeys[/YOUTUBE]

    Somewhat useful contribution: It seems to me the groups using the slurs themselves can't even again on its proper usage so I figure its best to just stay away and avoid the headache.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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