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  1. #61
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Growing up I did not understand this.

    I thought anyone could be "racist", as in anyone could be prejudiced by race. Which is true, but is usually not the definition used regarding racial matters in the United States. Now I realize the other definition of racism, where you have prejudice by race, coupled with institutional and social power to enforce that prejudice.

    I really wish this were explained more often. There are a ton of confused white kids out there that don't realize there are two definitions.
    I was that confused white kid once, but I only needed it explained one time before I understood it. This is where I learned about it, and hopefully at least one person will read it, and understand, and take it seriously. If not, take a sociology class or something.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    I was that confused white kid once, but I only needed it explained one time before I understood it. This is where I learned about it, and hopefully at least one person will read it, and understand, and take it seriously. If not, take a sociology class or something.
    I never took a sociology class. There's a real cultural disconnect out there. No one ever explained it to me, I happened upon it by accident.

  3. #63
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Here's the thing- I don't really think it's all that relevant what white people think about black people using the word. For myself- It's not mine and I don't want it.

  4. #64
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    4w5-1w2-5w4 -- RLUAI -- Chaotic Good/Neutral

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  5. #65
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    I was that confused white kid once, but I only needed it explained one time before I understood it. This is where I learned about it, and hopefully at least one person will read it, and understand, and take it seriously. If not, take a sociology class or something.
    I've already taken sociology classes.....suffice to say I understand it and still do not consider it a valid definition.

  6. #66
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Jay Smooth to GOOP: "Don't get too comfortable with that word"

    I love Jay Smooth. I'd have babies with him except I already had all my babies with somebody else, and I don't actually want more babies, and I'm pretty attached to the dad of the babies I already have.

  7. #67
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    All this is why I'm so very uncomfortable around reclaimed slurs, and, more generally, with people making jokes about their ethnicity/culture/group/appearance. I have friends that do it and I usually just clamp up when it happens. I'm left in a pretty awkward place of lacking the in-group cred/knowledge/identity to either object or play along. I'd hate to sound like "woe-is-me. It's so frickin' hard being a member of the majority" but it can be very difficult to know what the minorities want me to do; it's such a shifting target. Sometimes it's an invitation to bond over a shared joke, but other times I'm meant to keep out of it. In some ways it can make me feel more divided from that person than I originally did - because initially I just saw them as a person, someone like me, but next thing they're emphasizing our differences and indicating how I couldn't possibly understand.

    The additional problem (perhaps like with Gwyneth Paltrow's situation) is that sometimes the less bigoted you are, the more racist you can seem. If racial boundaries mean less to you (ie. you see people on equal terms) you're not highly attuned to possible faux pas or misinterpretations of your words or actions, and are more likely to put your foot in it. It's one of the ironies of racial politics.
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  8. #68
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    All this is why I'm so very uncomfortable around reclaimed slurs, and, more generally, with people making jokes about their ethnicity/culture/group/appearance. I have friends that do it and I usually just clamp up when it happens. I'm left in a pretty awkward place of lacking the in-group cred/knowledge/identity to either object or play along. I'd hate to sound like "woe-is-me. It's so frickin' hard being a member of the majority" but it can be very difficult to know what the minorities want me to do; it's such a shifting target. Sometimes it's an invitation to bond over a shared joke, but other times I'm meant to keep out of it. In some ways it can make me feel more divided from that person than I originally did - because initially I just saw them as a person, someone like me, but next thing they're emphasizing our differences and indicating how I couldn't possibly understand.
    First, to the bolded: it's only a moving target because "the minorities" are actually, you know, just people. Individuals. They don't have a hive mind and they're not obligated to all share the same opinion just because they share a racial identity.

    But that's neither here nor there. I'm not going to pretend I've never had experiences like you describe here before myself, but I guess I see them differently. As a white person I don't have those uncomfortable experiences where I don't know how I'll be viewed or treated on a daily basis. It's out of the ordinary for me because usually I just go about my business, not thinking about race, because I don't have to. Non-white people don't have that luxury. Which brings me to the next part of your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    The additional problem (perhaps like with Gwyneth Paltrow's situation) is that sometimes the less bigoted you are, the more racist you can seem. If racial boundaries mean less to you (ie. you see people on equal terms) you're not highly attuned to possible faux pas or misinterpretations of your words or actions, and are more likely to put your foot in it. It's one of the ironies of racial politics.
    This is directly related to us being able to just go about the business of living life without thinking about race. Since I started to recognize these things I've been, quite simply, amazed at what I take for granted that others can't. The truth is, we do not live in a colorblind culture, and it's a form of racism (albeit a passive, sometimes even well-meaning one) to imagine/pretend that we do.

  9. #69
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    This thread reminded me that I had a thread about these kinds of things once upon a time: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...31-racism.html

  10. #70
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    First, to the bolded: it's only a moving target because "the minorities" are actually, you know, just people. Individuals. They don't have a hive mind and they're not obligated to all share the same opinion just because they share a racial identity.

    But that's neither here nor there. I'm not going to pretend I've never had experiences like you describe here before myself, but I guess I see them differently. As a white person I don't have those uncomfortable experiences where I don't know how I'll be viewed or treated on a daily basis. It's out of the ordinary for me because usually I just go about my business, not thinking about race, because I don't have to. Non-white people don't have that luxury.


    You misunderstand me. I am completely conscious of all of this.

    Of course what complicates the issue is individual preference. My only point is it's difficult when some individuals treat their individual preferences as transparent and obvious to all, and take offence when outsiders fail to recognise them; or worse, when they suggest something personally offensive to them, equates to bigotry against their wider group.

    And of course being white offers such privileges - I don't deny this. But I also don't want to accept that privilege, and seek a more equal society for all. I only speak of such problems because I earnestly wish to bridge the gap but at times I am left feel confused and uneasy. I totally realise that these issues are minor in comparison to the discrimination many suffer every day but I wasn't actually attempting to compare them at all.

    This is directly related to us being able to just go about the business of living life without thinking about race. Since I started to recognize these things I've been, quite simply, amazed at what I take for granted that others can't. The truth is, we do not live in a colorblind culture, and it's a form of racism (albeit a passive, sometimes even well-meaning one) to imagine/pretend that we do.
    Of course, denying that there is a problem is offensive and idiotic. But isn't a colourblind culture still the ultimate ideal - what we people are fighting for (whether it's full achievable or not, is another issue). True equality is when you look at a black person and you think "person" first, not "black".
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