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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    I would argue that the best way for this (and any) word to be reclaimed is to accept it in any form that is not deliberately offensive, regardless of speaker or audience.
    I don't think this is a good idea, as I stated above. This allows people to use the word offensively while claiming they are not using it offensively.

    I think reclaiming words is a bad idea to begin with, but this would cause even more problems.

  2. #32
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I don't think this is a good idea, as I stated above. This allows people to use the word offensively while claiming they are not using it offensively.
    I meant to mention this in my previous post, but agreed 100%. Far too many people would be using the terms to offend people, then claiming "but words can't be offensive now! Stop being so sensitive!"
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  3. #33
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Why is it that of all the minority groups, there remains a persistent segment of the black community that is determined to own the pejorative once directed at them rather than just discard it? Why try to repurpose and reclaim it, then criticize non-blacks for following the lead? The reason the word won't die is because they won't let it. I don't run around calling my white family members honkies and crackers or my Mexican relations spicks and wetbacks. Seems like common sense to me. I know there are plenty of black folks that feel the same way as I do (my black relations for starters), but some people didn't get the memo.

    So, what gives?
    I think for those who advocate reclaiming the word, the issue is history. It carries with it the pain of being dehumanized, but it is nonetheless part of the story of our community. The past cannot be "discarded, so we tried to integrate it on our terms. There's ambivalence about relinquishing ownership. How could someone else possibly understand what they haven't lived? In a perfect world, relinquishing "nigger" would symbolize a sort of final integration, that at last our narrative is a part of some greater whole. But it would be a culmination, rather than a start.

    Beyond that is the issue of self-loathing. We can't share it cause we just can't get from under it. This is the thing no one wants to talk about. That there's some part of you that sees me as a little bit less than, and there's some little part of me that agrees. And if we take the word that best expresses this and use it before you do, then you certainly can't do worse. And if we can suck some of the venom out of it, maybe there will be less poison in our own wound.

    Personally, I don't use the word. It doesn't make me feel closer to anyone, or more in touch with my roots. It simply makes me angry. The one time someone called me that word to my face I got thrown out of school for knocking the bitches lights out.
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  4. #34
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I on iPad to hard t type.

    But @MacGuffin that was like your longest post EVER. You even used complete sentences! That didn't consist solely of 1 liners! I think if you did more of that people people would know you're serious and what your argument actually is *cough cough* PMS *cough cough*

    Please explain more why white people aren't allowed to use ethnic slurs directed as others.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I gotta disagree with you Mac, perhaps I can get away with certain things because I can read peoole really well and know how to apologize if I piss them off irl, but I say "wazzup my nigga" to people all the time. I think maybe it's because I a) don't do so w strangers 2) use it with people regardless of race/ethnicity, and because I feel a person out to make sure they would not be offended. I think it is very much like a racist joke, there is a way of saying such things to debase other human beings and then there is a way of doing so to poke fun at our "differences" so we realize we're all just human. However, California culture is pretty loosey goosey about such things compared to other places perhaps where racism is more entrenched.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I on iPad to hard t type.

    But @MacGuffin that was like your longest post EVER. You even used complete sentences! That didn't consist solely of 1 liners! I think if you did more of that people people would know you're serious and what your argument actually is *cough cough* PMS *cough cough*
    Because I know you dummies around here can barely understand more than three sentences!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Please explain more why white people aren't allowed to use ethnic slurs directed as others.
    One has to know their audience, see:

    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I gotta disagree with you Mac, perhaps I can get away with certain things because I can read peoole really well and know how to apologize if I piss them off irl, but I say "wazzup my nigga" to people all the time. I think maybe it's because I a) don't do so w strangers 2) use it with people regardless of race/ethnicity, and because I feel a person out to make sure they would not be offended. I think it is very much like a racist joke, there is a way of saying such things to debase other human beings and then there is a way of doing so to poke fun at our "differences" so we realize we're all just human. However, California culture is pretty loosey goosey about such things compared to other places perhaps where racism is more entrenched.
    If you can get away with it, great. I see you don't do it everywhere though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    Okay, just for future reference, it would've been made more clear that was what you were implying had you not used the term 'racism', since that's a misnomer. White people can not experience racism (power + prejudice) because white people are the ones with institutional power over racial minorities.
    You may be reading more than I intended into my original post. I wasn't referring to a specific racial group when I mentioned racism; I was actually talking about the consequences of discrimination. Discriminating results in an us-versus-them mentality, which results in increased racial separation and leads to further racism.

    As to power, that is a funny thing. A person or group can have or lack power regardless of institutional injustices. A while kid walking through a 'black' neighbourhood can easily be just as powerless as a black kid walking through a 'white' neighbourhood, and the consequences can be just as dire for either one if they're targeted for violence.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I don't think this is a good idea, as I stated above. This allows people to use the word offensively while claiming they are not using it offensively.

    I think reclaiming words is a bad idea to begin with, but this would cause even more problems.
    People are already using it in the manner you describe. Ideally, words with such hateful connotations would simply stop being used entirely out of basic respect for human decency. Barring that fantasy, I see allowing all people to use the word (in a positive way) as a superior solution when compared to allowing a specific racial group to use it.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    People are already using it in the manner you describe. Ideally, words with such hateful connotations would simply stop being used entirely out of basic respect for human decency. Barring that fantasy, I see allowing all people to use the word (in a positive way) as a superior solution when compared to allowing a specific racial group to use it.
    How does one know a negative word is used in a positive way? When the intent is clear. If one is a member of the group against which the word is applied, it is easier to tell that person is not using that word in the historical negative context. If one is a member of another group that has historically used the word in a negative manner, then intention becomes very muddled.

    No one should use racial slurs at all, but if they are used, it is far easier to discern intent when used by a member of the afflicted racial group. Other racial groups don't get the same pass because the slur is not about their group and they are often the reason why that word is a slur in the first place.

    Oppresive racial groups don't suddenly get to ignore history and social context when they created that very history and social context. It takes time to erase that.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    Same goes for dyke, faggot, tranny, wetback and etc etc. Have you even tried asking the people who say it why they use it?
    Not to my recollection. Have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    White people can not experience racism (power + prejudice) because white people are the ones with institutional power over racial minorities.
    Wrong. My father was a poor white kid growing up in an all-black area of Detroit and I assure it can go both ways.
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