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  1. #111
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    He who doth control the comic books doth control the culture. I see.

    Once Sesame Street and My Little Ponies fall, humanity will be theirs! Damn them! And ever since howard the duck temporarily became Son of Satan, we should have known!!

    More likely if people don't like the product, they'll go elsewhere...the wonders of capitalism in the public discourse seem scarier to me. If you don't have money, you can't buy the time; and if you don't please enough people with your words, you don't get the money.
    Hardly.

    Although its keeping a particular topic in the foreground of public thinking and discussion which I honestly believe if it disappeared into the background would die a death.

    I think about the impact of capitalism upon the media or public policy too but in countries like the UK that has meant a very favourable outcome for the replacement of heterosexual profiles with homosexual ones, there must be come seriously monied elites out there that politicians are scrambling to attract because nothing else would explain the extent to which all political parties of all stripes across the whole of Europe have aimed to present themselves as endorsing homosexuality.

  2. #112
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    See to me, reading that, I think that the alternative hypothesis that consumerism, "choice culture" and "potentiality anxiety" could be as much of an explanation.
    I think it can be a potential explanation for a minority of people, and there are probably indirect effects (i.e., the things you mention are factors among many that can strengthen a choice to go in a particular direction and/or remove hindrances that might discourage someone from going in a particular direction); but I think your "could be as much of an explanation" comment is wishful thinking, based on what research I'm aware + my experience with American male mentality.

    So what you have is individuals go through selfish mid life crisis and decide that nothing they know is satisfying or living up to expectations, so they make some pretty radical choices amidst that crisis, which could involve drastically altered brain chemistry, bouts of alcoholism or similar trippy craziness too, and our present culture rather than challenging it or even recommending pause for thought will be very supportive of decisions such as gravitating toward homosexuality.
    Lark, I don't really understand why you think "gravitating toward homosexuality" is a typical outcome for males undergoing a mid-life crisis -- ESPECIALLY in a country as traditional in some ways as the United States. Despite recent shifts in cultural mentality that are supporting of those who claim a homosexual preference our culture is very much anti-homosexual, with women being more open to homosexuals than males are due mainly to fear of having their own masculinity diluted or threatened.
    I honestly don't know any males (aside from the "free love" times of the 60's and mid-70's) where straight men who are disillusioned with life / highly stressed will gravitate toward a homosexuality relationship or homosexual sex. They will become far too promiscuous and have affairs, they will leave established marriages in order to provide themselves with freedom, they will drink heavily, they might do recreational drugs, they will buy expensive toys (cars, guns, games, sports equipment, TV, entertainment, etc.) -- but honestly I don't know any middle-aged man "turns to the geh" due to a mid-life crisis. I'm sure on occasion there probably is a very very small minority, but I honestly think they'll turn to religion long before trying out the "gay" thing. Gay people are much more in risk of being beaten up by straights than straights turning gay just to experiment nowadays. From a very early age, boys do NOT want to be viewed or treated like girls, and this attitude is pervasive even into adulthood; even the hint that someone might be gay because he gets too close to male friends is a dominant facet of American masculinity that men have to routinely work through.
    So.... aside from what is happening in your part of the world (of which I have no idea), I would have to honestly say... no, I really don't think that's a common occurrence here.

    Infact it is often articulated as the only possible or safe or supportable choice in such as situation. Which to my mind is pretty radical. Especially when I've read about famiiles in which the former spouses and children have come to endorse the changing up of sexual orientation.
    I'm not sure why you seem to be recriminating families and children who do happen to reach a supportive state, when warranted, in their particular situation. It's one thing to have a parent who ditches their family and becomes promiscuous and whatever else; it's another to remain connected and work with two responsible parents of either persuasion who are divorcing for ANY legitimate reason and remaining close as a family. To assume it's always bad for families to come to terms with authentic shifts in family dynamics just shows a lack of relational experience and/or the anecdotal case history to me. *shrug*

    I'm pretty sure it would be treated differently, by both heterosexuals and homosexuals but particularly homosexuals, were it occuring in reverse. I think I've pointed up before about the post secret posts which are about individuals who have come out agonising about second thoughts that they may actually be heterosexual or at least bisexual.
    I would encourage men who have identifed as gay to process such thoughts and feelings rather than suppressing them. It's hard enough to be a minority in a culture to begin with, and especially one that results in being treated often like a second-class citizen and in danger of physical harm. But you also don't want people living inauthentic lives, because it stunts their growth and maturation and puts people in a position to suffer emotional hurt; it's a band-aid solution to something that needs to be dealt with. If someone who thought they were gay based on what they were experiencing later decides it was really not what they wanted and can more affirm to a heterosexual relationship, then more power to them, and they should be offered support in doing so.

    However, claiming "Post Secret" as an authority on such matters seems a bit silly; we're talking a handful of post cards without the ability to validate authenticity, in a situation where people are rewarded by sharing thoughts that run against the public expectation. Like it's really "shocking" on some level that there are those who don't conform to the cliche narrative?

    I really do not think that there's a healthy or realistic public attitude to sexuality per se presently, although it seems just plain wrong that in response to being disatisfied or feeling fails to live up to expectations that you should consider your very sexual orientation. That's just madness.
    If that was what was happening, I would agree. I think however that you are assuming WAY too much the legitimate reasons for someone reconsidering their relational history later in life. To me, that runs counter to what I've learned by interacting with human beings, what research I've examined, what my own personal anecdotes have been in life (not just me but members of my family). Your case so far seems far more assumptive; you're simply writing off someone's homosexual preference as some kind of social manufactured change spurred on by individual weakness and inability to "take the straight path." And you've done this regularly over the years you've been a member here, regardless of any anecdotal revelation or discussion that would suggest the contrary... which I find rather lame. At least you could better nuance your comments in this regard. I've certainly conceded certain points even in this post (i.e., "you have a bit of a point here").

    I can think of few other areas of personal and social life were fantasy or imagination can have such import as sexuality, I really would be surprised if anyone didnt experience a measure of "disillusionment" as a result, even if you are a sort of being that isnt taken in by hype so easily pop culture presently does drive up expectations of sex like nothing else, perhaps love in an earlier romantic age but I'm not sure if that's even a good comparison.
    To get back to the core of this: I don't really think all the people "turning geh" as you seem to view it is based on being unhappy in heterosexual relationships. It seems more likely for women, since we can build intimate relationships with other females more easily much of the time than with men, and those things are part of love; but for men? Really? Men seemed train to abhor the thought of ever being seen as gay... just like your reaction earlier this morning when someone poked fun at you about maybe being gay brought an over-the-top response from you. I just don't buy it, it doesn't conform to the data and experience.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #113
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    So as gay gets more accepted will there be less "he got married and had kids but of course he could be gay!!!!111"? Seems that people will feel the need to hide it less.

    On topic:
    Comic books are too confusing to keep up with. I read wiki after movies and I can't even follow wtf happened with anyone using cliff notes! My brother in law is crazy comic book guy I'll have to ask him.

    It does seem there might be someone better to have as gay but I guess the "married with kids" thing is normal in our lifetime. And talking about comic books there doesn't seem to be anything that makes sense or stays the same. That's why it's hard to weigh in as a non-comic book geek. When comic books make news for anything it seems like people try to assume they make some sort of sense.

  4. #114
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Only on planet earth, would this be an issue worth debating.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #115
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Only on planet earth, would this be an issue worth debating.
    Didn't they do it because it's an issue that gets debated?

  6. #116
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    Didn't they do it because it's an issue that gets debated?
    Marketeers are indeed the profiters of our own flawed nature.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #117
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hardly. Although its keeping a particular topic in the foreground of public thinking and discussion which I honestly believe if it disappeared into the background would die a death.
    To be honest, I also don't give a crud either way about the whole superhero/gay thing in this instance. It just seems to be something being promoted heavily by the media and now has taken on some kind of zombie-like life because people want it to be the story du jour; anything the media can sensationlize, now that it has to fill the media channels 24/7, it will. But really, like, who cares? So Alan whassisname is gay. If it impacts sales negatively, I wouldn't be surprised to see it changed yet again. Business as usual around here.

    I think about the impact of capitalism upon the media or public policy too but in countries like the UK that has meant a very favourable outcome for the replacement of heterosexual profiles with homosexual ones, there must be come seriously monied elites out there that politicians are scrambling to attract because nothing else would explain the extent to which all political parties of all stripes across the whole of Europe have aimed to present themselves as endorsing homosexuality.
    I don't feel comfortable discussing what is to me foreign politics in this area, because I don't really have knowledge of the specifics. I only really have experience with American media and sociopolitical conversations, so I would just be speculating or possibly wrongly applying my personal knowledge to contexts in which it is inapplicable.

    Based on public response here and the current dialogue, I honestly don't see "het profiles" being replaced by "homo" ones in the American tapestry. Long story short, this dialogue is really about the 2-4% of the population that consistently identifies as gay, and for the rest of the population, it's less a personal issue than a public one around rights and/or what is permitted to be discussed/criticized/dissuaded. People here are searchers and get caught up in a host of things, but don't turn long-term "geh" just because they see other people who identify as gay. (lord knows, gay people take such a beating in our culture on many different fronts that if someone could choose not to be gay, I'd see that happen FAR more often. Only in very particular circles would it seem benefitical, but those aren't ones most Americans belong to.) On the personal level, it's more about providing freedom to the minority who actually identify as such over the long-term rather than letting them stew in depression, suppression, and repression for the rest of their lives.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #118
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    On topic:
    Comic books are too confusing to keep up with. I read wiki after movies and I can't even follow wtf happened with anyone using cliff notes! My brother in law is crazy comic book guy I'll have to ask him.
    Yeah, honestly, the "soap opera" analogy isn't a bad one. Marvel's been doing a lot of reboots and crazy spinoffs and one-shot alternate futures and... whatever else. I have no idea what is legitimate mainstream continuity any more, tbh, and I can't afford spending $3-4 an issue for one comic book a month, let alone several, especially without reread value. I just buy the occasional trade paperback nowadays if it's something I really care about.

    It does seem there might be someone better to have as gay but I guess the "married with kids" thing is normal in our lifetime. And talking about comic books there doesn't seem to be anything that makes sense or stays the same. That's why it's hard to weigh in as a non-comic book geek. When comic books make news for anything it seems like people try to assume they make some sort of sense.
    That's why I said in one of my posts to Lark that if this ends up being a commercial misadventure, I'm sure they will change it yet again -- either the orientation OR cancel the direction of the entire line and thus indirectly negate the change in orientation here. It happens regularly... and it's typical for a writer to leave after two years and another writer come on and change everything he didn't like, so it's really hard to care either way. There is no permanence enough for it to matter, long-term.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #119
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    well, you are to me.
    and it was not to shut you up, it was to provoke
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not homophobic and I am 100% heterosexual.

    Why would you say either thing other than to shut me up.

    Which says a lot about those pushing your agenda. Its not social engineering nor nothing to try and silence alternatives to your own.

  10. #120
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You can Google this, probably; but I think Hal Jordan had a bone to pick with the Guardians and ended up destroying Oa / the Guardians. At some point in his sojourn into questionable behavior, he was called Parallax. And then at some point he sacrificed himself to reignite the dying sun, becoming somewhat of a hero again.

    And then, as typically happens, they brought him back for some reason and now I guess he is Green Lantern again. I haven't really read comics regularly since about 1998-2000, so I'm not sure of anything anymore except what I pick up by accident.

    I remember the black guy but don't recall his name nor know what happened to him. I do remember Guy Gardner pretty well, he was in the Justice League when it was pretty fun to read.
    I guess I will google it then.

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