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  1. #61
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Between a small business and a corporation.

    I can smell the BS from some of what is written a mile away even if it is a fictional piece (though some of it is true enough.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't know if that's true or not, but this isn't a competition.

    I'm so sick of the Left/Right labels. These days they're basically pejoratives (thanks to Rush Limbaugh coining the term "leftists"). I'm not even sure what the term "Left" means anymore. Many people that someone like Rush Limbaugh would label as a "Leftist" are probably actually right of center once you zoom out of the ridiculous narrative that's played out in the 24/7 cable news and talk radio radio sphere.
    There isn't really a "true" left anymore. 5 degrees of separation between the two parties ain't much - Not much difference when both are controlled by corporations. (I still feel like I am being held hostage by both parties for their corporate sponsors.)

    If there really was a left, it has been hijacked and has been made to not be able to govern by this so called "right."

    Or in some cases, reactionaries and radicals.

    All I can say is, take your poison. Neither Romney nor Obama can fix the issues we have because they are part of the status quo.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The unions are only of ancillary concern to corps.

    The first thing they ever care about is profit margin, and their investments go where that margin is greatest.
    Semantics

    Currently that margin is the largest where a company makes a product in the 2nd or 3rd world, and sells it in a first world market.

    This is a trend that tariffs aren't going to be able to do too much about, and we will be bitched out hardcore by the WTO.
    Tariffs can affect change as long as the US has the largest consumer economy. But each day that goes by, our lead in that category diminishes. Once the US loses that status, tariffs will do nothing. The clock is ticking.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #63
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    My fake-o-metere went off the charts at 1/4 in. These fake inspirational "real letters/memos/speeches/tombstones" etc littering the internet are like Oprah book of the month cum reality TV pablum. They do not inspire me, make me think, or incite warm fuzzy feelings. They all seem like a hack job by someone trying to get to get a $5 writing gig on Craigslist.

    Damn I am a hater.

    HOWEVER, thank you for sharing Swordpath. . It is an interesting way to present an unpopular POV and I realize you thought it was authentic when you posted it.

    Also, that letter is WWWWAAAAYYYYY too long to have been sent out to an office. If the founder and CEO of a company I worked at sent something that long and condescending Id be out of there because I'd assume he was narcissistic or otherwise unbalanced or about to have a mental breakdown. Also I'd think HOLY SHIT WE ARE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

    I did actually work at a company (very large, later got its own office campus) where the founder would give weird ass sentimental hokey speeches and inspirational talks. Nothing gives you the reputation of being an out of touch narcissist faster than using some childrens picture book as a lead in for why everyone needs to pull unpaid overtime and come into the office an hour early.
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  4. #64
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Excellent points by @Lateralus, @fia and @ygolo, that really need to be driven home. (Most liberals in the media and even Occupiers don't seem to be good at articulating this stuff).

    Funny, conservatives represented by that fictional CEO frequently paint the other side as always "whining", but that's exactly what the CEO is doing with that sob story of his, about how he worked so hard from dirt, and now the government is taking away all his hard work and giving it to someone who didn't "earn it". "Mommy; Jimmy took my toys away!"

    And it's pure self-righteousness, because it paints onesself as superior to others, and you just as much as they, want the maximum comfort with the least resistant. Pure textbook shadow projection!

    I reiterate a point I made recently, regarding how this plays in the race issue:

    What I think is a large part of the problem is that conservatives feel they have to PROVE this country is the greatest in the world. Yet, things aren't going so well in it now (morally or economically), but this has to be blamed on others. So they can't admit any wrong on their ancestors' part, or the economic system that developed so they have to blame the poor (and the "liberals" supposedly giving them all "their" hard earned money).
    Colonialism, slavery, and poverty is a big ugly stain on the image of the “godly society” many have portrayed. So there must be something wrong with the victims, that they not only are innately or at least "morally" defective today, as evidenced by all their "problems", but likely "deserved" all that in the past in the first place because of this defectiveness.
    (As much as they hate a "race card" being "played" on them, they fail to realize this entire premise is one of precisely the same sense of superiority and inferiority that led to the past actions!)

    Meanwhile, seeing capitalism as a natural part of their "good" heritage (through the in practice "corporatist" aspect of this can really be debated: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05...unding-fathers) they REFUSE to ever blame it for draining the economy. (That's really where all the money is going).
    After all, the rich “deserve” it all (they fiercely argue), because their name is on a payroll with a title, so their being bailed out and using the money for $89,000 pheasant hunts and million dollar birthday parties doesn’t count. They deserve it, no matter what, because they’re our heroes; representing our superior system and it can’t ever be to blame. No; it’s just Obama’s fault for bailing them out. (Corporate welfare was always seen as right and “the American way” when Republicans did it).
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  5. #65
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    There you go, reframing the debate again.

    This isn't about envy, this is about fixing whats wrong.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    What I think is a large part of the problem is that conservatives feel they have to PROVE this country is the greatest in the world. Yet, things aren't going so well in it now (morally or economically), but this has to be blamed on others. So they can't admit any wrong on their ancestors' part, or the economic system that developed so they have to blame the poor (and the "liberals" supposedly giving them all "their" hard earned money).
    Colonialism, slavery, and poverty is a big ugly stain on the image of the “godly society” many have portrayed. So there must be something wrong with the victims, that they not only are innately or at least "morally" defective today, as evidenced by all their "problems", but likely "deserved" all that in the past in the first place because of this defectiveness.
    (As much as they hate a "race card" being "played" on them, they fail to realize this entire premise is one of precisely the same sense of superiority and inferiority that led to the past actions!)

    Meanwhile, seeing capitalism as a natural part of their "good" heritage (through the in practice "corporatist" aspect of this can really be debated: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05...unding-fathers) they REFUSE to ever blame it for draining the economy. (That's really where all the money is going).
    After all, the rich “deserve” it all (they fiercely argue), because their name is on a payroll with a title, so their being bailed out and using the money for $89,000 pheasant hunts and million dollar birthday parties doesn’t count. They deserve it, no matter what, because they’re our heroes; representing our superior system and it can’t ever be to blame. No; it’s just Obama’s fault for bailing them out. (Corporate welfare was always seen as right and “the American way” when Republicans did it).
    Excellent points, though I believe bail outs have never been popular with either side of the political divide.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    There you go, reframing the debate again.

    This isn't about envy, this is about fixing whats wrong.
    lol, I read that in Reagan's voice, "there you go again".

    But I think it's directly on point on how the rich believe the economic problems are somehow entirely the fault of the non-rich. Like how the mortgage crisis is really the fault of the people taking the risky loans they are offered instead of the banks that are doing the offering. Or it's the fault of the government for creating incentives that somehow relieved banks from doing their own risk assessments.

    I mean ranting about welfare mothers? People still do that? Is it 1988 again?

  7. #67
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If only China was willing to stop artificially devaluing it's currency.
    Too bad your awesome scholarship-worthy education wasn't enough to learn the difference between a possessive pronoun and a verb. You always confuse its with it's.
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  8. #68
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    ^^I find that comment extra giggly considering its coming from a non native English speaker. Oh FDG, this is the interwebz! Half of us don't even use actual words let alone this thing you call "proper punctuation". When I see native speakers type in Spanish or French on Facebook I'm like "wtf is this?? This is not the language I studied half seriously and sporadically through the years!...or months!...or month"

    See, when you write online you just make up grammar as you go along. :P
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Too bad your awesome scholarship-worthy education wasn't enough to learn the difference between a possessive pronoun and a verb. You always confuse its with it's.
    Too bad I don't give a shit.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    To statement 3 I say: there have been many, but those at the very highest reaches of corporate America have the ability to disproportionally affect the US economy with their personal brands of idiocy. Whereas small business owners under a certain size (don't ask me what I don't know) will fail due to competition if their decisions are dumb enough.

    Thus at least with small businesses, the idiocy of the owner will be punished by the market, and doesn't require the same amount of regulation that a multinational requires.
    Frankly, I don't think it is the size of business that makes the difference but the style of it.

    Corrupt small business owners can stay around bribing local politicians and regulatory agencies, hiring illegal workers, etc. without going about of business.

    The market can't correct for information it does not have.

    I'm sure you are aware too, that there are a lot of regular conferences and meetings for entrepreneurs and the self-employed in most cities (mine is no exception). Many of them even give out free classes on things ranging from accounting, to negotiations. A lot of times, these classes are put on by people trying to sell you the "next level" classes that seem like overpriced versions of things you could learn from the library or internet.

    We meet all sorts at these conferences, and most of them weren't money grubbers.

    The biggest contingent seemed to be restaurateurs and bar owners. They did what they did, it seemed like, because they saw a need that wasn't being addressed (To me, this was amazing, considering how many restaurants and bars there are around. But apparently, there is a particular "vibe" they go for that isn't around in the immediate area). Unfortunately, I have little interest in restaurants or bars.

    There are shop-owners, people running dance studios, people with crazy gadgets, and so on. For the most part, they seemed like dreamers willing to take some big risks to make their dreams come true.

    I believe this is the pluck and industry that makes this country great. (Ironically, the majority of the entrepreneurs at these conferences are immigrants, but that is a topic for another thread that for some reason none responded to)

    However, there is a dark side... One time, Donald Trump's people came to town and put out a class on real-estate and entrepreneurship in general.

    One part of the class was on "how to think like Trump" or something like that. I believe the exercises were meant to get you to think "outside the box" (to use a cliche).

    One exercise I remember was the following (more or less): "Suppose you are in New York City during rush hour, and someone calls you and tells you that they will give you $10 Million if you can get to where they are, which is across the city, in 20 minutes. What do you do?"

    This is a cool thing to think about (I haven't thought of a satisfactory solution myself). But what struck me were the answers given by the participants and encouraged by the facilitator.

    They involved things like: "Call 911, and tell them that the people who help me will each get a hundred thousand dollars." (This may have been the winner) A very large number of the responses, if not all, were in the bribe-some-people-with-power category.

    I found that disturbing.

    There was also a session on negotiations. Some of the stuff made a lot of sense, but another thing that struck me, was during the practice sessions, how some people were just gleaming with pride when they royally screwed over the other party. "Got him good". It was probably fairly eye-opening for those who got swindled or bullied in the negotiation sessions...so helpful overall. But still, this points to the seedy nature of some parts of the business world.

    Even at the Billionaire level, we have people like Larry Paige as one style, and Larry Ellison as another.

    There are some people who got to where they are by providing things of value, and being compensated, and others who get to where they are by taking things from others. This happens at levels big and small.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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