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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If only China was willing to stop artificially devaluing it's currency.
    But even that's besides the point.

    Think about it, as long as there are yawning disparities between the richest nations and the rest, cheap labor will be available in the developing world.

    I don't see anything wrong with this, because that's what capitalism is.

    What we need to do, is innovate in industries where outsourcing isn't such an issue. And this is where we come to investment in (and reform of) domestic energy programs and healthcare.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If only China was willing to stop artificially devaluing it's currency.
    We can't control what the Chinese do, but we can control what we do (tariff rates).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    We can't control what the Chinese do, but we can control what we do (tariff rates).
    Well if we get going the way we need to, it wont matter what China does.

  4. #54
    Member herbpixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    What he should do is gather up a bunch of his like-minded buddies, shut down their businesses, hide out in Colorado as society grinds to a halt, then re-emerge and deliver a two hour sermon on the evils of collectivism. The story alone would make a terrible novel!
    Indeed. This post made me happy.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Well if we get going the way we need to, it wont matter what China does.
    I doubt that will ever will happen. The outsourcing of jobs out of the US was a deliberate strategy by the "job creators" to undermine the power of unions. I would agree with the argument that unions were too powerful in 40-50 years ago, but the way their power was reduced (free trade) ended up hurting the entire economy, causing more harm than good.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You make your own luck.

    I went to an academic magnet public school, and was an IB student. (That high school was number 3 in the country when I graduated. Now it's like number 16 in the southern US)

    I received one of the best high school educations this world has to offer for free.

    I also went to a public university where I was paid to go through bright futures scholarships.
    I find this amusing. The three sentences that you wrote were pretty much my history as well. But what you call "making your own luck", I call being lucky.

    I haven't had to pay for my education in a long time. I consider this being lucky.

    Certainly, I worked hard. But many people worked just as hard as me without the breaks I got.

    This is almost as funny as Craig T. Nelson talking about how he was on welfare and food-stamps when nobody would help him out.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U
    [YOUTUBE="yTwpBLzxe4U"]"I've been on food stamps and welfare. Did anybody help me out. No."[/YOUTUBE]
    ^That sentence embodies all that I mean, when I talk about entitled rich people. They believe they got to where they are all on their own. As if the myriads of chances and opportunities that were given to them counted for nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Of course they aren't the only one's who work hard.

    To argue that would be ridiculous.

    True, utilizing the labor of others to make a greater profit together than either could alone is the hallmark of entrepreneurship.

    Most small business owners who are successful over the course of decades understand the importance of paying their employees well.

    There are certainly others who do not share this view, but to argue that most entrepreneurs are predatory is as ridiculous as assuming that all entrepreneurs world harder than all employees.
    Certainly, I know many good and well meaning business people. You could probably even search this forum and find a thread I started emphasizing that business owners aren't evil bastards.

    Now that we have made clear what we are not saying, perhaps we can make more reasonable statements.

    Statement 1: People get to where they are based on a whole host of circumstances, and opportunities given out at the right moments in their life. Not all of these things are under their control. There is a "circle of influence" that we have which is probably more than most people think they have. But our "circle of control" is probably smaller than what we think it is. Most of life, at various levels, have a strong random element in it. You can use good strategies to improve your chances of good outcomes, but to say you "make your own luck" seem either delusion or hyperbole (I am guessing in your case it was hyperbole).

    Statement 2: The income or net-worth of a person does not necessarily reflect how much they are contributing to society or the economy. I'll let you parse/interpret that one.

    Statement 3: There have been many examples of rich people abusing their position of wealth and influence.

    Do you agree or disagree with any of these?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I doubt that will ever will happen. The outsourcing of jobs out of the US was a deliberate strategy by the "job creators" to undermine the power of unions. I would agree with the argument that unions were too powerful in 40-50 years ago, but the way their power was reduced (free trade) ended up hurting the entire economy, causing more harm than good.
    The unions are only of ancillary concern to corps.

    The first thing they ever care about is profit margin, and their investments go where that margin is greatest.

    Currently that margin is the largest where a company makes a product in the 2nd or 3rd world, and sells it in a first world market.

    This is a trend that tariffs aren't going to be able to do too much about, and we will be bitched out hardcore by the WTO.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I find this amusing. The three sentences that you wrote were pretty much my history as well. But what you call "making your own luck", I call being lucky.

    I haven't had to pay for my education in a long time. I consider this being lucky.

    Certainly, I worked hard. But many people worked just as hard as me without the breaks I got.

    ^That sentence embodies all that I mean, when I talk about entitled rich people. They believe they got to where they are all on their own. As if the myriads of chances and opportunities that were given to them counted for nothing.
    Of course the opportunities counted for something.

    Certainly, I know many good and well meaning business people. You could probably even search this forum and find a thread I started emphasizing that business owners aren't evil bastards.

    Now that we have made clear what we are not saying, perhaps we can make more reasonable statements.

    Statement 1: People get to where they are based on a whole host of circumstances, and opportunities given out at the right moments in their life. Not all of these things are under their control. There is a "circle of influence" that we have which is probably more than most people think they have. But our "circle of control" is probably smaller than what we think it is. Most of life, at various levels, have a strong random element in it. You can use good strategies to improve your chances of good outcomes, but to say you "make your own luck" seem either delusion or hyperbole (I am guessing in your case it was hyperbole).

    Statement 2: The income or net-worth of a person does not necessarily reflect how much they are contributing to society or the economy. I'll let you parse/interpret that one.

    Statement 3: There have been many examples of rich people abusing their position of wealth and influence.

    Do you agree or disagree with any of these?
    To statement 1 I say: duh

    To statement 2 I say: duh

    To statement 3 I say: there have been many, but those at the very highest reaches of corporate America have the ability to disproportionally affect the US economy with their personal brands of idiocy. Whereas small business owners under a certain size (don't ask me what I don't know) will fail due to competition if their decisions are dumb enough.

    Thus at least with small businesses, the idiocy of the owner will be punished by the market, and doesn't require the same amount of regulation that a multinational requires.

  9. #59
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    This is straight from Atlas Shrugged. Pulling a john galt.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/righ...just-quitting/
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    This is straight from Atlas Shrugged. Pulling a john galt.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/righ...just-quitting/
    What??? Some chick from the past stole my idea I posted upthread!!!

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