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  1. #21
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    There is no objective reality.

    Everyone is equally entitled to the views their experience in this life has afforded them.
    Objective reality then becomes the viewpoint of the person(s) with the most wide ranging experience then because they are most able to relate, sympathize, and incorporate the reality of others into their own

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You're not hearing me.

    Compromise is a two way street.

    You're either willing to put your golden calf on the table (entitlements) or you aren't.

    I'm willing to put our most treasured causes under the knife, so should you be.

    Without compromise we can't move forward.
    This is not good enough, because even without corporatism we have moved into a new paradigm (or an old one really lol [think Egyptian slaves]) of people working their entire lives with little hope to send their children to college, own a home (major metropolitan areas), or have a retirement plan (especially one that is not stock based and could lose 50% of it's value in a relatively short period of time). Rolling back entitlements or as I prefer to call them liberties to use the terminology of the right will make things worse not better. Also, it is ridiculous that you could work for 20 years get cancer lose your job because you can't work, lose your healthcarr because you lost your job, and then lose your home to pay off the medical bills. I've seen this happen soo many times it angers me beyond rage. It's like humans are just another "resource" to be utilized and shucked to the side when they're too old to work as hard anymore. I'm tired of seeing people act as a manager and getting paid an empoyee's wage and an employee being expected to do twice as much as is healthy for their mind, heart, soul, and body for subsistence wages. I'm tired of the waste of human potential where many gifted people born into poverty stay there.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Objective reality then becomes the viewpoint of the person(s) with the most wide ranging experience then because they are most able to relate, sympathize, and incorporate the reality of others into their own
    Your crack pipe must be hot to the effing touch.

    This is not good enough, because even without corporatism we have moved into a new paradigm (or an old one really lol [think Egyptian slaves]) of people working their entire lives with little hope to send their children to college, own a home (major metropolitan areas), or have a retirement plan (especially one that is not stock based and could lose 50% of it's value in a relatively short period of time). Rolling back entitlements or as I prefer to call them liberties to use the terminology of the right will make things worse not better. Also, it is ridiculous that you could work for 20 years get cancer lose your job because you can't work, lose your healthcarr because you lost your job, and then lose your home to pay off the medical bills. I've seen this happen soo many times it angers me beyond rage. It's like humans are just another "resource" to be utilized and shucked to the side when they're too old to work as hard anymore. I'm tired of seeing people act as a manager and getting paid an empoyee's wage and an employee being expected to do twice as much as is healthy for their mind, heart, soul, and body for subsistence wages. I'm tired of the waste of human potential where many gifted people born into poverty stay there.
    I hate to rip this to pieces because you seem to be well intentioned, but investing in a system whose financial structure is unsound will only lead us to ruin.

    We just need to streamline and minimize waste within the entitlement system, not completely eviscerate it.

    Until you can take off your blinders, you won't be able to substantively contribute to this conversation.

  3. #23
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    *shrug*

    When you learn not to think in terms of limited resources, but of abundance is when you'll become truly rich
    lol
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #24
    morose bourgeoisie
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    If the guy owns a Mercedes, a 'big house' and goes on fancy vacations, then he's not being 'taxed to death'. He wants you to think he's a pillar of the earth because of his sacrifice, but he can’t see past the end of his own nose to see the sacrifice around him. His employees are privileged because he gave them a job?
    Businesses fail all of the time. It must be because they are all being 'taxed to death'. It couldn't be because of poor business practices, poor accounting, lack of adaptability, etc; no, it's all the government's fault. How dare the collective make any demands on a job creator! For the sake of this theatrical presentation, we'll conveniently forget that all job creators benefit by using publically maintained infrastructures all of the time.
    This thing is like a libertarian wet dream.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think labels are fine where appropriate.

    And here I would call someone a leftist, if they were more committed to painting business as a boogie man, than be willing to accept how important small business is to the economy.
    Where are these people who demonize all business? I've heard people demonizing Wall Street, big banks, and large corporations, but I haven't heard anyone demonize small business, ever. This sounds like the ultimate straw man argument to me.

    I give ground on military spending, raising revenues, funding for social programs, and many other areas, with out similar concessions on the other side, I will label them leftist, just like I'll label the right wing fringe as such.
    I recommend not using words and phrases that Rush Limbaugh popularized.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Where are these people who demonize all business? I've heard people demonizing Wall Street, big banks, large corporations, but I haven't heard anyone demonize small business, ever. This sounds like the ultimate straw man argument to me.
    Dennis Kucinich.

    I recommend not using words and phrases that Rush Limbaugh popularized.
    I'd recommend quitting before you get too far behind.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    If the guy owns a Mercedes, a 'big house' and goes on fancy vacations, then he's not being 'taxed to death'. He wants you to think he's a pillar of the earth because of his sacrifice, but he can’t see past the end of his own nose to see the sacrifice around him. His employees are privileged because he gave them a job?
    Businesses fail all of the time. It must be because they are all being 'taxed to death'. It couldn't be because of poor business practices, poor accounting, lack of adaptability, etc; no, it's all the government's fault. How dare the collective make any demands on a job creator! For the sake of this theatrical presentation, we'll conveniently forget that all job creators benefit by using publically maintained infrastructures all of the time.
    This thing is like a libertarian wet dream.
    The politics of envy grow tiresome, and only work with your focus groups.

    Bitching about fairness isn't going to move us forward in 2012.

    You guys can play the world's tiniest for me if you can't get over your own tired rhetoric.

  8. #28
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The politics of envy grow tiresome, and only work with your focus groups.

    Bitching about fairness isn't going to move us forward in 2012.

    You guys can play the world's tiniest for me if you can't get over your own tired rhetoric.
    You have learned the talking points well. Too bad you stopped critically thinking at that point.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Dennis Kucinich.
    When did he demonize small business?

    I'd recommend quitting before you get too far behind.
    You seem to really care about making a distinction between yourself and the wing nuts in the Republican party, yet you use the same vocabulary. Surely you're intelligent enough to see the folly in this.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #30
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Perhaps it is not rhetoric! Perhaps you're not listening! Aka our experience matrix is larger and superior!
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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