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  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    It seems odd to me that he is oblivious to the bailouts to mega corporations and banks. The welfare checks that the poor receive are not the problem. Also welfare is not about turning people into CEO's, but is to help keep people functioning. It keeps the children healthy enough to not end up with physical disabilities. It might help that mother get an associates degree, or certificate to get a steady job. Human beings can be a resource or a cost in a society and when they are in complete poverty without a leg up, there is tremendous increase in physical and mental disability. It can create large percentages of the population who are not functional.

    When people become too self centered and self righteous, they end up assuming that everyone had their same initial starting points. It is admirable that this man worked hard and made progress, but he ran in circles with people who made good money. He had food and shelter, and e power to make choices about his future. He was not disabled or struggling with mental illness without help. He was not surrounded by the hopelessness and depression or even the violence of poverty. He complains about the most vulnerable and is silent about those with the greatest power who have consumed the nations resources.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't know if that's true or not, but this isn't a competition.

    I'm so sick of the Left/Right labels. These days they're basically pejoratives (thanks to Rush Limbaugh coining the term "leftists"). I'm not even sure what the term "Left" means anymore. Many people that someone like Rush Limbaugh would label as a "Leftist" are probably actually right of center once you zoom out of the ridiculous narrative that's played out in the 24/7 cable news and talk radio radio sphere.
    I think labels are fine where appropriate.

    And here I would call someone a leftist, if they were more committed to painting business as a boogie man, than be willing to accept how important small business is to the economy.

    I give ground on military spending, raising revenues, funding for social programs, and many other areas, with out similar concessions on the other side, I will label them leftist, just like I'll label the right wing fringe as such.

  3. #13
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The reason he's so angry is that his story is always overlooked by the MSM for some pull at your heartstrings piece about poverty.

    It sucks feeling like your life experience has no traction with public opinion.
    There are many similarities in what he describes to my own life. I worked hard, earned three graduate degrees, never spent a dime on luxury, although my career didn't produce an income even now for which I can buy luxury items as he does. I am middle aged and still working every moment at my career and buying clothes at thrift stores, etc. I moved from near poverty to being an expert in my field, etc. etc. but I am fortunate enough to have started with less than he did and so I can conceive of the black hole that is poverty.

    When I rode the city bus in grad school since I didn't own a car until my late 20's, I met a man who was severely deformed and about three feet tall. He was kind and interesting. One day he talked about his disability. His family were poor farmers in Nebraska and his mother was malnutritioned during pregnancy. I also think of a beautiful red haired woman I met who was raised in poverty. Both parents had low intelligence and mental illness. This girl had more going for her and worked two full time minimum wage jobs to support her family. She achieved as much as this CEO. I also remember another friend from the bus who had mental retardation. She told me her story every day that her father had place her head under water as a child which damaged her brain. She was on public assistance. Then there was the man at the Subway sandwich shop who was missing half of his teeth. He chatted with me and asks if I was going home for the night. He sqid how much he wished he could but that he had a second full time job. Then I recall the many people in the ER where I worked as a volunteer who waited to be seen by a doctor for 30 hours or more because they had no health insurance.

    Are these the actual stories people are being told? I have never heard this in the media but only in the reality of life. I have far more often heard the inspiring tale of the hard working CEO who dared to dream and work hard. How many inspirational posters make you think it is possible that for some people there is actually little or no hope?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #14
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    There are many similarities I what he describes to my own life. I worked hard, earned three graduate degrees, never spent a dime on luxury, and although my career didn't produce an income even now for which I can buy luxury items as he does. I am middle aged and still working every moment at my career and buying clothes at thrift stores, etc. I moved from near poverty to being an expert in my field, etc. etc. but I am fortunate enough to have started with less than he did and so I can conceive of the black hole that is poverty.

    When I rode the city bus in grad school since I didn't own a car until my late 20's, I met a man who was severely deformed and about three feet tall. He was kind and interesting. One day he talked about his disability. His family were poor farmers in Nebraska and his mother was malnutritioned during pregnancy. I also think of a beautiful red haired woman I met who was raised in poverty. Both parents had low intelligence and mental illness. This girl had more going for her and worked two full time minimum wage jobs to support her family. She achieved as much as this CEO. I also remember another friend from the bus who had mental retardation. She told me her story every day that her father had place her head under water as a child which damaged her brain. She was on public assistance. Then there was the man at the Subway sandwich shop who was missing half of his teeth. He chatted with me and asks if I was going home for the night. He sqid how much he wished he could but that he had a second full time job. Then I recall the many people in the ER where I worked as a volunteer who waited to be seen by a doctor for 30 hours or more because they had no health insurance.

    Are these the actual stories people are being told? I have never heard this in the media but only in the reality of life. I have far more often heard the inspiring tale of the hard working CEO who dared to dream and work hard. How many inspirational posters make you think it is possible that for some people there is actually little or no hope?
    Watch CNN and tell me what kind of stories come up more, pieces like their ongoing "Black in America" series, or pieces about small business owners.

    The only reason I bring this up is because CNN is supposed to be balanced.

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think labels are fine where appropriate.

    And here I would call someone a leftist, if they were more committed to painting business as a boogie man, than be willing to accept how important small business is to the economy.

    I give ground on military spending, raising revenues, funding for social programs, and many other areas, with out similar concessions on the other side, I will label them leftist, just like I'll label the right wing fringe as such.
    This s the talking point against the left - that they are against small business. I think you would be hard pressed to find a liberally minded person against small, or even medium sized business. There should be no battle between the poor and the middle or even upper class.

    It is big business, the mega banks and mega corporations that the left is fighting to bring to accountability. These mega structures are not burdened with taxes, no, they use overseas exploitations that evade taxes. These are the structures whose bailouts were socialized placing the economy at risk. These structures are the reason small business is burdened with taxes. How do they dismiss themselves from the equation leaving all of the burdened population to fight each other?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    This s the talking point against the left - that they are against small business. I think you would be hard pressed to find a liberally minded person against small, or even medium sized business. There should be no battle between the poor and the middle or even upper class.

    It is big business, the mega banks and mega corporations that the left is fighting to bring to accountability. These mega structures are not burdened with taxes, no, they use overseas exploitations that evade taxes. These are the structures whose bailouts were socialized placing the economy at risk. These structures are the reason small business is burdened with taxes. How do they dismiss themselves from the equation leaving all of the burdened population to fight each other?
    You're not hearing me.

    Compromise is a two way street.

    You're either willing to put your golden calf on the table (entitlements) or you aren't.

    I'm willing to put our most treasured causes under the knife, so should you be.

    Without compromise we can't move forward.

  7. #17
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The reason he's so angry is that his story is always overlooked by the MSM for some pull at your heartstrings piece about poverty.

    It sucks feeling like your life experience has no traction with public opinion.
    Yeah, but what is stupid about it is the assumption that his experience of reality equals reality, that everyone starts at the same level and that it is only wise or unwise decision making that separates them, and the idea that because the universe was difficult for him it should remain difficult for others so things are "fair" (similar to the mindset of someone who's gone through hazing or bullying and then Identifies with the abuser).

    I think cnn is the left's fox news lol and I don't listen to it. I'd rather hear cbc, bbc, or al-jazeera. AP is crap now too.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Yeah, but what is stupid about it is the assumption that his experience of reality equals reality, that everyone starts at the same level and that it is only wise or unwise decision making that separates them, and the idea that because the universe was difficult for him it should remain difficult for others so things are "fair" (similar to the mindset of someone who's gone through hazing or bullying and then identifies with the abuser).
    There is no objective reality.

    Everyone is equally entitled to the views their experience in this life has afforded them.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The reason he's so angry is that his story is always overlooked by the MSM for some pull at your heartstrings piece about poverty.

    It sucks feeling like your life experience has no traction with public opinion.
    Lol. I would have quit if I got a letter like this. It is quintessential entitlement.

    I had at one point wanted to be an entrepreneur myself. I have tried a few things. Perhaps after my phd, I will try something full scale. If I do, it will not be for the aim of getting rich and being able to drive a Mercedes, etc.

    I believe bushiness success is >50% luck. It seems like the trick is to survive the failures till you get a success. If someone built a business in just 3 years, I would count them lucky.

    I've know quite a few entrepreneurs. All of them survive at this point, and a few are supporting themselves quite easily, but only a small set are in the multimillionaire category (and frankly finding out more about their actually back-stories, they did some shady things to get there). Based on the sampling of entrepreneurs I know, it seems like the separating element is not hard-work and sacrifice, but a looser set of values, and a willingness to take advantage of people.

    I know this is fake, but do people really think small business owners are the only ones who work like this? What about doctors, scientists, engineers, etc.?

    Practically everyone I know has a back-story of sacrifice, hard work, and discipline, and only a small fraction are business owners now. Whoever wrote this seems to come from a lazy set of friends, and his character complains that he is the only one that "sacrificed", and insults his employees by saying they only come in at 9, check out at noon, and leave by 5.

    Practically every engineer in the tech industry works long hours, and those who got advanced degrees have been doing it since they were children. My old roommate brought a bed into his lab, and basically slept, worked, ate, etc. in the lab till he got his masters. I have a friend doing her phd now who is planning on doing something similar.

    I personally have spent several months living out of suitcase and a sleeping bag in order to work an internship. There are many people in the generation before me who arrived in the country with nothing more than a suit-case and the clothes he was wearing. This is the typical type of story of people I know who are starting out in life (unless of course you come from a privileged background like this fake guy, or whoever wrote it).

    I appreciate that small business owners work hard, but so do most people (again, unless you come from a privileged background).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I believe bushiness success is >50% luck.
    It is then no wonder you chose not to pursue entrepreneurship.

    It seems like the trick is to survive the failures till you get a success. If someone built a business in just 3 years, I would count them lucky.

    I've know quite a few entrepreneurs. All of them survive at this point, and a few are supporting themselves quite easily, but only a small set are in the multimillionaire category (and frankly finding out more about their actually back-stories, they did some shady things to get there). Based on the sampling of entrepreneurs I know, it seems like the separating element is not hard-work and sacrifice, but a looser set of values, and a willingness to take advantage of people.

    I know this is fake, but do people really think small business owners are the only ones who work like this? What about doctors, scientists, engineers, etc.?

    Practically everyone I know has a back-story of sacrifice, hard work, and discipline, and only a small fraction are business owners now. Whoever wrote this seems to come from a lazy set of friends, and his character complains that he is the only one that "sacrificed", and insults his employees by saying they only come in at 9, check out at noon, and leave by 5.

    Practically every engineer in the tech industry works long hours, and those who got advanced degrees have been doing it since they were children. My old roommate brought a bed into his lab, and basically slept, worked, ate, etc. in the lab till he got his masters. I have a friend doing her phd now who is planning on doing something similar.

    I personally have spent several months living out of suitcase and a sleeping bag in order to work an internship. There are many people in the generation before me who arrived in the country with nothing more than a suit-case and the clothes he was wearing. This is the typical type of story of people I know who are starting out in life (unless of course you come from a privileged background like this fake guy, or whoever wrote it).

    I appreciate that small business owners work hard, but so do most people (again, unless you come from a privileged background).
    Some Doctors and Scientists and Engineers are small business owners.

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