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  1. #11
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Well I finished my master's dissertation on the subject a little over three weeks ago. You are confusing the one aspect of the diagnosis which is the empathy disorder with the whole.
    oh dear, as experts in the field have conflicting opinions about this, I can't be sure you're correct, but at the very least, I'm obviously outclassed as far as references/experience go.

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  2. #12

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    Some of the researchers discussed the heritability factor, which appears to be high. This means that there are people we might consider psycopathic, or who have high 'callous-unemotional traits,' but "successfully" partner up and parent children. Many of these individuals do go on to become functional in society, but it's hard to determine if their "condition" improved, or if due to their high intelligence, they learned to disguise their character --a chameleonic ability.

    Gonna throw out some more interesting tidbits that really got me thinking:

    While it may be possible to modify a callous-unemotional child’s behavior, what’s less clear is whether it’s possible to make up for underlying neurological deficits — like a lack of empathy. In one oft-cited study, an inmate therapy group that halved the recidivism rate in violent prisoners famously increased the rate of “successful” crimes in psychopaths, by improving their ability to mimic regret and self-reflection. A related article recently speculated that treating antisocial children with Ritalin could be dangerous, because the drug suppresses their impulsive behavior and might enable them to plan crueller and more surreptitious reprisals.

    In another study, the researcher Mark Dadds found that as C.U. children matured, they developed the ability to simulate interest in people’s feelings. “We called the paper ‘Learning to Talk the Talk,’ ” Dadds said. “They have no emotional empathy, but they have cognitive empathy; they can say what other people feel, they just don’t care or feel it.” When Anne worried that Michael might have begun manipulating his therapists — faking certain feelings to score points — she might have been more right than she knew.

    Most researchers who study callous-unemotional children, however, remain optimistic that the right treatment could not only change behavior but also teach a kind of intellectual morality, one that isn’t merely a smokescreen. “If a person doesn’t have the hardware to do emotion processing, you won’t be able to teach it,” Donald Lynam observes. “It may be like diabetes: you’re never really going to cure it. But if your idea of success is that these kids aren’t as likely to become violent and end up in jail, then I think treatment could work.”

    Frick is willing to go further. If treatment is begun early enough, he says, it may be possible to rewire the brain so that even C.U. children might develop greater empathy, through therapies that teach everything from identifying emotions (C.U. children tend to have difficulty recognizing fear in others) to basics of the Golden Rule. No one has yet tested such treatments in C.U. children, but Frick notes that one early study indicated that warm, affectionate parenting seems to reduce callousness in C.U. kids over time — even in children who initially resist such closeness.
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  3. #13
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I am confident (and neurodevelopmental psychologists' research back it up) there is no inheritability of callousness, but it is learned through punitive parenting and a non-nurturing environment. Things like attachment parenting, breastfeeding, and at least one loving care provider are nearly completely protective against what could later become an antisocial character.

    And I am pleased, and not surprised, that a person can turn their antisocial behavior into a socially acceptable one. Will power is great, but with God all things are possible.
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  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    You can prevent psychopathy because it's defined and caused by more than biology and neurology.
    Would they classify attachment issues as something else? (such as when a child is raised in a non-interactive environment for an early crucial window of time and ends up seeming to lack empathy / can exhibit indifferent violence to others, etc.)

    How would you distinguish the two -- just from case history, or are the symptoms different?
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  5. #15
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    The stock market will disappear if all of the psycho/sociopaths are re-educated.

    EDIT: IT would be interesting to see statistics on the breastfeeding and sociopathy. I would hypothize that breastfeeding would provide some degree of protection against it due to exposure to oxytocin and vasopressin from the milk...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Would they classify attachment issues as something else? (such as when a child is raised in a non-interactive environment for an early crucial window of time and ends up seeming to lack empathy / can exhibit indifferent violence to others, etc.)

    How would you distinguish the two -- just from case history, or are the symptoms different?
    If I'm understanding your question correctly then there's indeed a distinction to be found. You are referring to sociopathy rather than psychopathy. But I wouldn't say that a "non-interactive environment" would be the cause of it.

    From what I know, that would more likely cause the child to display autistic symptoms even with a clean bill of neurological health.

    When you take the four individual cases and put them next to each other you get a pretty good idea about what separates them.

    The cause for sociopathy, one of the major ones at least. Is a turbulent childhood. Mental/physical/sexual abuse is almost always a given factor.
    The same goes for psychopathy, but that's just a building on top of the genetic predisposition. The shortened MAO-A gene (the warrior gene) and the impaired prefrontal cortex is the ground it's standing on.

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I am confident (and neurodevelopmental psychologists' research back it up) there is no inheritability of callousness, but it is learned through punitive parenting and a non-nurturing environment.
    Could you provide some references of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Will power is great, but with God all things are possible.
    You should try to convince a person with autism that. Or even better a psychopath, I'm sure that he would be eager to hear all about it before your life is smashed apart the same way that glass house of a statement was.

  7. #17
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    Anytime up to 25% of the criminal offenders can be mitigated, listen. However, when you listen and hear new findings of genetic stems are mentioned, wait. Eventually biological science will catch up to the hypothesis and enough information will be gathered to disprove. As of now, these are controlled experiments done by desperate parties for domestic purposes. The idea is an interesting one to ponder. But ponder is all you can do. Psychopathy can not be socialized. Sociopaths are even harder to regulate. Long ago, I accepted the reality people are born with mental issues. Autism, depression, bipolarity , and other chemical imbalances are inherited, and harken Darwinist sympathies.

    The strong survive, and whereas these individuals may have become soldiers in the pre-international declarations on the legalities of war and torture, fighting alongside fellow Vikings at sea, hopefully with the ferocity a Patrick Bateman of American Psycho had, there isn't a place for them now. So, they get locked away. I say a possible solution would be to optimize their failures and train these kids in the mean time to be fighters. Otherwise, there will be a lot of dead dogs and burnt cats in the neighborhood as these kids reach K-8. And, if you are anything like me, you like your dogs alive & loving and your psychopaths killing; as long as its someone who wants to kill you, its all good.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @iwakar
    interesting topic, but I think the answer is no, unless scientists can figure a way to reactivate the amygdala of a psychopathic person
    What made you make this comment? Diminished signalling in the amygdala is also characteristic of CEOs
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  9. #19
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Could you provide some references of this?


    You should try to convince a person with autism that. Or even better a psychopath, I'm sure that he would be eager to hear all about it before your life is smashed apart the same way that glass house of a statement was.
    I could if I searched for it. It's been a while since I read his research. But it's generally known in my circles that this is anecdotally very true as well.

    Autism is some sort of biological abnormality. Antisocial disorder is caused by environmental influences, as you supported in your post (to Jennifer). And I was saying it was great that Iwakar found studies that said a 'pyschopath' could be taught empathy, and that I'm not surprised about that, because when a person has enough will power to change, I believe he (she) can.

    I did neglect to say I also think/feel love is a great motivator as well. Perhaps the greatest.

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  10. #20
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    What made you make this comment? Diminished signalling in the amygdala is also characteristic of CEOs
    exactly. the concentration of psychopaths is 4X greater in the business world than in society as a whole
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