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  1. #91
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Maybe I'm a little old school.. but I think kids are babied too long as is. Children have a luxury now-a-days of being a child longer than they used to be, especially in developed countries.. You can be attached, and loving, and still teach your child independence from an early age. Too many adults have issues with things like being alone, and feeling abandoned, and being too dependent on others.. and its something that plagues them for way too long.. and my personal opinion is that many of the things we do in adulthood stem from our childhood.
    You can be attached, and loving, and nurse until the child self-weans, and still teach your child independence from an early age.

  2. #92
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Maybe I'm a little old school.. but I think kids are babied too long as is. Children have a luxury now-a-days of being a child longer than they used to be, especially in developed countries.. You can be attached, and loving, and still teach your child independence from an early age. Too many adults have issues with things like being alone, and feeling abandoned, and being too dependent on others.. and its something that plagues them for way too long.. and my personal opinion is that many of the things we do in adulthood stem from our childhood.
    The thought is that much of that anxiety originated from improper attachment in early childhood, and inattentiveness to the child's needs when it was helpless, alone and unable to tend to those needs. Many hypothesize that such a state is psychologically equivalent to the fear of imminent death (since that's what it would lead to for an infant or toddler), and if common or reinforced through neglect and/or abuse, the trauma persists throughout a person's life. Abandonment fears and dependency arise from that trauma sending you into a panic, since if you do not have others around, or that "special someone" nearby, your chances of survival are rapidly diminishing.

    At some point, a child without a secure attachment developed a coping style upon adulthood: either dismissing the need for attachment and close relationships in general, developing anxiety and seeking any close relationship, even if abusive, or fearing and avoiding emotional closeness while concurrently desiring it.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
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    @kyuuei @onemoretime
    You're both wrong and both right. We cannot on one hand baby or over-rear our children lest they not become self-sufficient or independent or not become proper individuals. But on the other hand we cannot leave them to their own devices and not allow them the attachment and love that they need.
    We find ourselves yet again staring down the barrel of the golden mean.
    A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  4. #94
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Too many adults have issues with things like being alone, and feeling abandoned, and being too dependent on others.
    Arguably, and ironically, that could be because of a lack of adequate attachment to those closest to us in infancy.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Maybe I'm a little old school.. but I think kids are babied too long as is. Children have a luxury now-a-days of being a child longer than they used to be, especially in developed countries.. You can be attached, and loving, and still teach your child independence from an early age. Too many adults have issues with things like being alone, and feeling abandoned, and being too dependent on others.. and its something that plagues them for way too long.. and my personal opinion is that many of the things we do in adulthood stem from our childhood.
    While I agree with you that many people who are approaching adult hood and who already are adults are babied or spoiled, I disagree with you saying adults feel alone, abandoned, or dependent because of too much nurture.

    If anything, it's actually because of a lack of cohesion in society, the sky-rocketing divorce rate, the loss of extended family ties, the phenonmenon of single living, and a perception that people should be somehow superhuman and autonomous and not need a community, a family, or a spouse.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisius View Post
    @kyuuei @onemoretime
    You're both wrong and both right. We cannot on one hand baby or over-rear our children lest they not become self-sufficient or independent or not become proper individuals. But on the other hand we cannot leave them to their own devices and not allow them the attachment and love that they need.
    We find ourselves yet again staring down the barrel of the golden mean.
    I think the problem is that children are getting too much of what they want and not enough of what they actually need.

    Children actually need a sense of discipline, limits, and self-efficacy...and they also need love, support, and security.

    I'm not a Catholic but Mother Theresa was DEAD ON when she said the greatest disease of the West was that people have too much materially, but not enough spiritually (which can be translated by a non-religious person as not enough psychologically and emotionally).

    You can baby a young adult, deprive them of a sense of self-sufficiency and spoil them with material things, but deprive them of their deepest psychological and emotional needs.

    Spoiled, selfish little children aren't the result of too much love, nurturing, or family...they're the result of people who try to replace love, nurturing and family with THINGS and FUN.

  7. #97
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Word'emup Marmie. Solid. Right on. (This very meaningful post brought to you by me being too sleepy to really contribute anything new myself.)

  8. #98
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I nursed my little guy till he was about 16 months old. He was eating solid food, and partial formula up until age one. Everybody gave me shit about it, but it was emotionally soothing for him when he was under stress or tired.

    When he was about two, he did one day make a dive for my boobs at a restaurant during dinner raising hysterical laughter from the 14 year old.

    My older son slept with me until he was about 4, but back then I didnt tell many people because they said it was "bad". When I had this little one, they actually had data to show that co-sleeping could reduce the rate of SIDS fairly dramatically and was perfectly safe if using the right bedding. I co-slept with this little guy up until 3 almost every night. We still have special nights about 1-2 times a week where I sleep with him until 1 am or so. He loves this and snuggles up with mommy.

    It seems very odd to me that no other mommies in the animal kingdom put their newborn babies alone and behind a closed door except people-animal mommies keep their babies close and warm and snuggle with them, grooming them all the time. In this mindset we also did a bit of baby message as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    By the way, about the cover: I don't like it. It's sensationalism and exploitation and it doesn't really illustrate my experience as a so-called "attachment parent." I nursed my children as long as she did, but by that age it was mostly a night time/first thing in the morning thing, not a nutrition thing, and definitely always at home. My kids were learning about privacy and private parts by that age.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post


    Dionna Ford of Kansas City, Mo., and her children, ages 4 years and 5 months.
    "It's so funny that the women who ask breast-feeding parents to cover up wouldn’t write to Victoria’s Secret to ask them to take down their ads."
    For some reason I find this to be a very beautiful picture. Her eyes seem so full of love.

  9. #99
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Interesting article about the art history side of things:

    The milk of human kindness! As in literal milk. Of kindness.

  10. #100
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Now I want a milkshake.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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