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  1. #11
    Senior Member Snoopy22's Avatar
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    Yes - but they should have used the General Discharge, the UOTHC is too harsh for these actions.

  2. #12
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I think he should be free to criticize to avert a culture of lock step obedience in the military which I feel is dangerous to society.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  3. #13
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Well if you are in the military the president is your ''CEO''. You represent his or her command.
    if you worked for a company and your hobby was to publicly parody and speak badly of your CEO wouldn't you expect to get fired ?
    I don't find it particularly shocking. It's not a matter of ego or defamation, it's simply professional misconduct, and you can get fired for that.


    I agree.

    I mean, he can say what he wants within his family/friends domain, I believe. But not when that reaches a public audience.
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  4. #14
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I think he should be free to criticize to avert a culture of lock step obedience in the military which I feel is dangerous to society.
    A military without a culture of "lock step obedience" isn't much of a military.

    One can find a million reasons not to do his job when bullets start flying around.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  5. #15
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    A military without a culture of "lock step obedience" isn't much of a military.

    One can find a million reasons not to do his job when bullets start flying around.
    Yep.

  6. #16
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    This is an interesting situation. I understand the arguments that the government is his employer and it's not a wise move to criticize your employer, but this is different in a number of key ways.

    First, the military has a culture that really wouldn't be accepted elsewhere; it's a hierarchical, political, conformist, coercive, and borderline abusive organization. This type of organizational structure leaves little room for internal change and allows for pockets of resentment and divisiveness to form, particularly for creative thinkers and minorities. The result is that groups or individuals may have legitimate grievances and concerns that cannot be effectively addressed internally.

    Second, you can't just leave. Individuals who join often are poor, uneducated, or otherwise disadvantaged, meaning they might not understand what they're getting themselves into. If they become disenchanted with the organization (often for very valid reasons), they're stuck. This is especially true during armed conflicts.

    So, you have a situation where you feel that what your organization is doing is wrong. Attempts to change from within fail (more or less by design), and possibly even result in abuse. And you can't leave without repercussions to yourself, possibly even jail time depending on circumstances. At this point, I would argue that it is extremely appropriate and necessary to be able to voice your opinions publicly. If you can't, then things simply can't change for the better.

  7. #17
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    True. From a personal stand point, I love and endorse the constitution and a citizen's freedom of speech; but the rules veer a little for military personnel. It's necessary for good order within the ranks. Good order is essential.
    Yes, this.

    It doesn't work any other way.

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