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  1. #1
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Default Transsexuality, medical insurance and the state's role in minority rights

    If someone doesn't want to hire a transgender, nothing force him to do it.

    Theses laws are nothing more than coercion.

    And of course, the State must not reimburse the surgical operations that trangender take. It's spoliation of people who didn't choose to be transgender, they have not be force to finance the trangender's whim paying tax to reimburse sugery or hiring them and paying them a salary either.

    That's it.
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    If someone doesn't want to hire a transgender, nothing force him to do it.
    Theses laws are nothing more than coercion.
    All laws are coercion, by your standards.

    So what are your actual criticisms of the precedent rulings on which this decision was based? (aside from, "I hate laws because they're just coercion")
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    All laws are coercion, by your standards.

    Not thoses who protect life, freedom, and property right. However, those who try to impose the whims of a minority to the majority, are coercion.


    So what are your actual criticisms of the precedent rulings on which this decision was based? (aside from, "I hate laws because they're just coercion")
    It's meaningful that you can't argue with the opponents to your auhoritarians programs witout caricaturing their speech.

    And you should read the rest of my post.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    And you should read the rest of my post.
    I just did, since you added to it since I first read it.

    How am I supposed to respond to comments taking into account no specific knowledge of the condition or treatment being criticized?

    From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, reassignment surgery and other medical resolutions have a much higher success rate in practical experience than psychotherapy in resolving gender dysphoric conditions. That's simply part of the literature from any non-religious affiliated medical study. Both the AMA and the APA also have issues statements supporting such treatment when attending physicians and therapists agree it is in the best interests of the patient.

    in that light, it only makes sense that the Federal government, on that basis, would recategorize it as a non-cosmetic surgery. You should appreciate it, since it's the Feds letting the doctors actually being in control of patient treatment rather than imposing themselves unnecessarily on medical treatments they know nothing about.

    Is there any substantial basis to your stance, aside from your own personally held gut values?

    Now, it's my turn to ask:
    Did you actually read the articles I quoted, so that you could be properly informed before criticizing? From your comments and how fast they were posted, I doubt you did.

    If you want a "good faith" exchange, you need to invest a little before offering off-the-cuff criticisms.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I just did, since you added to it since I first read it.

    I have to ask:
    Did you actually read the articles I quoted, so that you could be properly informed before criticizing?
    From your comments and how fast they were posted, I doubt you did.

    If you want a "good faith" exchange, you need to invest a little before offering off-the-cuff criticisms.
    I never pretend that I read it in detail, I just overflyed it crosswise. Anyway, what I wrote still true.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I never pretended that I read it in detail, I just overflyed it crosswise. Anyway, what I wrote is still true.
    Thanks for bringing informed opinions, rigor, and investment to the discussion.

    I think I'll spend my energy on those who aren't just trolling the thread, thanks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Thanks for bringing informed opinions, rigor, and investment to the discussion.

    I think I'll spend my energy on those who aren't just trolling the thread, thanks.
    I don't need to read your article to be informed. You are not the only one source of informaton on Earth, you know. Surprised?

    Your behavior is predictable, by the way, I'm aware from a long time that you prefer to runaway than debate when you are confronted with your wrongs.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Your behavior is predictable, by the way, I'm aware from a long time that you prefer to runaway than debate when you are confronted with your wrongs.
    I have not seen Jennifer run from debate as she is a long standing powerful and especially reasonable debator.

    You, however, ran away from me in the last thread. You state that not only is discrimination a personal right, but a right of governance. Take your positions to their logical conclusions. Place yourself on the receiving end of your intolerant assumptions and you will comprehend how this thinking has the capacity to cause much suffering in this world because of a lack of reasonableness, because of a lack of reason. It is archaic thinking that was demonstrated throughout Europe in the 20th century.

    Edit: consider this Speed. Think about how you feel in these threads where there is little or no support for your ideas. No one understands or accepts your position, and this causes people to be dismissive towards you. What if you lived in a government that passed laws against your ability to get a job simply because of how you feel about transgendered people? Imagine someone else less qualified is hired only on the basis of your ideals or beliefs? Not liking or accepting someone's ideas, beliefs, way of living is not a reasonable basis for discrimination in governance when that same intolerance would be unreasonable directed at you simply because someone didn't like you exactly as you are and was uncomfortable with your life style.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #9
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I have not seen Jennifer run from debate as she is a long standing powerful and especially reasonable debator.

    You, however, ran away from me in the last thread. You state that not only is discrimination a personal right, but a right of governance. Take your positions to their logical conclusions. Place yourself on the receiving end of your intolerant assumptions and you will comprehend how this thinking has the capacity to cause much suffering in this world because of a lack of reasonableness, because of a lack of reason. It is archaic thinking that was demonstrated throughout Europe in the 20th century.

    Edit: consider this Speed. Think about how you feel in these threads where there is little or no support for your ideas. No one understands or accepts your position, and this causes people to be dismissive towards you. What if you lived in a government that passed laws against your ability to get a job simply because of how you feel about transgendered people? Imagine someone else less qualified is hired only on the basis of your ideals or beliefs? Not liking or accepting someone's ideas, beliefs, way of living is not a reasonable basis for discrimination in governance when that same intolerance would be unreasonable directed at you simply because someone didn't like you exactly as you are and was uncomfortable with your life style.
    jennifer is always a reasonable debator with thoses who agree with her.

    However, I never run away from you, I just found your post boring, and didn't have time to waste in an answer.

    One sure thing is that governance have no rights, only individuals have rights. There's no legitimacy to submit the will of an individual to the will of the selfish interest of a group.
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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  10. #10
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    However, I never run away from you, I just found your post boring, and didn't have time to waste in an answer.
    I know my analytical posts are "boring" because they do not use emotion or try to get people into an irrational state of mind. I take that as a compliment, actually. Accuracy of thought often requires that level of detachment. I would still be curious to see you try to respond to it.

    Why did you waste an answer now? Because of my challenge to say you ran away?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    One sure thing is that governance have no rights, only individuals have rights. There's no legitimacy to submit the will of an individual to the will of the selfish interest of a group.
    Which is exactly the point of these discussions. You have just made the perfect argument to support the rights of a transgendered individual against the selfish interest of a group. This is the issue that has been going on for too long, and is just now surfacing.

    You do get it, but you only see it from one side. Just apply your argument for all cases of individuals against the group.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)
    Likes Entropic liked this post

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