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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    You are, since you want to force a boss to hire a transgender.
    Oh damn, a manager has to actually get involved with their employee's life somewhat. Who would have thought? What they have going on down beneath the belt has nothing to do with how well they work, that is, unless they're a prostitute . Most of the time if people didn't say anything no one would be able to tell. We're all human beings who can perform most tasks very similarly to each other, there should be no issues in the work place. I think that if everyone accepted people as people, citizens as citizens, then we wouldn't have very many social issues.

    You realize that laws around rights are made to protect people and promote equality right? It for sure should be illegal to discriminate, one person's lack of freedom (A boss's to hire based on personal freedom) is promoting possibly thousands of people's guaranteed freedom (assuming that they don't just discriminate anyway, but the laws would make it a lot more difficult to do so). It doesn't really matter if the boss person's rights are being infringed if they are preventing many other's rights, they need to get with the times and realize that freedom and acceptance is in, useless discrimination is out in our new more advanced age.

    How would you feel if you were a transsexual and someone didn't hire you for your dream job specifically because you were that way?



    You'd probably feel like shit and be very angry. It would be very unfair. But oh! The stupid boss man didn't like it. Damn! You're just as hard of a worker as the others, only you were born a certain way so that somehow makes you inferior. This situation in and of itself it very unfair, and no amount of jadedness on your part makes it okay.

    You are a white guy, in the majority, and you would think much differently about these issues if you were a minority and had experienced REAL discrimination.
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  2. #82
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Lol... Like I said, you play your hand straight to the end no matter how empty it is. Bravo.

    I'd like to see your betting strategy in poker.
    I've ever explained why free market was more efficient than bureaucracy.

    I still wait the time when you'll say "bureaucracy is more effcient because....", but I bet you have not any rational arguments among you're cards. So, I win the set. Naturally.
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  3. #83
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I've ever explained why free market was more efficient than bureaucracy.

    I still wait the time when you'll say "bureaucracy is more effcient because....", but I bet you have not any rational arguments among you're cards. So, I win the set. Naturally.
    No, you do not. There are many many other issues involved.

    Meanwhile, you are choosing ONE way to view the issue, saying that issue is the MOST important issue, and then saying you win.

    That is basically like writing the game, making up all the rules to the game to suit you, and then saying you win. And when others say, "you are not addressing this, and this, and this, and this," you say those things naturally don't matter because you don't consider them important, even if they are extremely crucial to the wellbeing of others.

    Lame.

    The system exists for the people. Your pet way of approaching the situation ignores a bunch of needs of the people and even the way society ALREADY functions to your benefit. You are not addressing the actual needs of the people, except maybe your own personal needs. And once your personal needs change, the system will no longer suit you. Like I said, maybe this is just that you haven't been bitten in the ass yet or had to deal with this stuff firsthand, and you'll change your tune when you get run through the grinder and realize that there are other priorities.
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  4. #84
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    However, those who try to impose the whims of a minority to the majority, are coercion.
    I'd argue that sometimes, and more often than not actually, minorities NEED to impose their 'whims' (as you so delicately call them) on the majority.. it is human nature to not notice something until someone makes a big deal out of it. It isn't so much coercion.. I feel like that term implies we're trying to coax someone into believing something. Rather, laws state that whether you believe something or not, you must logically respect and acknowledge x.
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  5. #85
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Oh damn, a manager has to actually get involved with their employee's life somewhat. Who would have thought? What they have going on down beneath the belt has nothing to do with how well they work, that is, unless they're a prostitute . Most of the time if people didn't say anything no one would be able to tell. We're all human beings who can perform most tasks very similarly to each other, there should be no issues in the work place. I think that if everyone accepted people as people, citizens as citizens, then we wouldn't have very many social issues.

    You realize that laws around rights are made to protect people and promote equality right? It for sure should be illegal to discriminate, one person's lack of freedom (A boss's to hire based on personal freedom) is promoting possibly thousands of people's guaranteed freedom (assuming that they don't just discriminate anyway, but the laws would make it a lot more difficult to do so). It doesn't really matter if the boss person's rights are being infringed if they are preventing many other's rights, they need to get with the times and realize that freedom and acceptance is in, useless discrimination is out in our new more advanced age.

    How would you feel if you were a transsexual and someone didn't hire you for your dream job specifically because you were that way?

    If I was a transgender, I would assume the consequences of my choice without imposing it to the others, forcing a boss to pay me.


    you'd probably feel like shit and be very angry. It would be very unfair. But oh! The stupid boss man didn't like it.
    If he doesn't like it, that's his choice, his freedom, and we must respect that.

    Damn! You're just as hard of a worker as the others
    Precisely. Problems of discriminations happen when there's several peoples of similar competences, for only one job available. Theses peoples are of a similar level of competence, but are not part of the same comunity. It's perfectly natural that the boss express his subjective preference. If there was a transgender among them, who was more competent that the others, and that the boss didn't get it, that's his problem, in a system of free-concurence, a concurent compagny will take the opportunity to hire him, and the problem will be solved.


    I noticed that there's a sort of "system of communicating vessels". For example, I have a pal who is engeener, and is arab. There's some compagnies who prefer to not hire black and arab engeeners. That's their right. At teh same time, in the compagny where he works, most part of engeeners and managers are blacks and arabs. There's not strong differences between the level of unployment of black engeeners and white engeeners. Which means that, when it's truly a matter of competences, discrimination doesn't implies strong equality, there's a storng need for engeener's competence, so their sexual orientation or race is not important.

    I precise that my pal is libertarian, an completely a defender of the freedom of discrimination. He's not a transgender crybaby who ask for authoritarians laws.

    Of course, theses problems don't happen in a situation of full employement, and the best way to reach that situation is a minimal bureaucracy and a maximal economic freedom.

    In situation of crisis, it's normal that a boss express his preference. He could prefer to help a straight guy who's more likely to become father, than a gay. And if there's two peoples of the same level of competence, and that there's a black and a white. The boss might prefer the white. That's his right. It's the same when a white man prefer to marry a white woman, it's a discrimination, and after all, the black woman can be as competent as the white one to be good at bed, cook and raise kids. But the freedom of choice still aplies. Or maybe he would prefer the black woman, and some compagnies deliberately give their luck preferably to peoples of an african origins, that's their right to.

    Discrimination is the free expression of preference and subjectivity. Sometimes done in a wrong way. But concurence and free-market help to correct that. The bureaucracy claim it is more objective than compagnies boss. Actually, it's just another form of subjectivity. They have no competence to know if someone is competent or not, and just choose to help the member of the minority who vote for them. It's starting to become hard actually.

    Because a boss could be face to the choice to hire either a black, a transgender, or a gay. What should he do to avoid a lawsuit? To hire the black or the transgender? Or the gay? And by the way, the WASP are in movement to become an ethnic minority too. It would be the caze in 20 years, or 30 years or something. Should we create law to forbid discrimination for them too? And then a boss could take a lawsuit, wether he refuse to hire the gay, the black, the trangender or the WASP. I'm pretty sure that will encourage people to be entrepreneur and create jobs. Well, actually theses laws discourage economica activity, increases unemployement and reinforce the problem.

    Need I to talk more to demonstrate how ridiculous all of this is?

    You are a white guy, in the majority, and you would think much differently about these issues if you were a minority and had experienced REAL discrimination.
    As I said. The white are starting to become a minority. And I don't defend ideas because it's my interest, I defend it because it's truth and justice. That's what Ti is all about.
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  6. #86
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    You are, since you want to force a boss to hire a transgender.
    Not sure where you are, but we do that all the time anyways. It's called Equal Opportunity employment.

    Because it's spoliation.
    Some would call it not living like a bunch of selfish savages and telling children and old people to fend for themselves.

    While I am not saying a government based health care system would be ideal for any country, it has flaws like everything else. But many countries are rich enough and well off enough that they should start taking care of their poor and needy more than they do.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  7. #87
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    No, you do not. There are many many other issues involved.

    Meanwhile, you are choosing ONE way to view the issue, saying that issue is the MOST important issue, and then saying you win.

    Actually, I etablsihed principles which work always. If you have some cases where it doen't wok, just show it. But, bah, you're just fluffing.

    That is basically like writing the game, making up all the rules to the game to suit you, and then saying you win. And when others say, "you are not addressing this, and this, and this, and this," you say those things naturally don't matter because you don't consider them important, even if they are extremely crucial to the wellbeing of others.

    Lame.
    You don't do anything to really change the rules of the game you know. And that's very lame.

    The system exists for the people.

    For a specific group of peoples with their private interests.


    Your pet way of approaching the situation ignores a bunch of needs of the people and even the way society ALREADY functions to your benefit. You are not addressing the actual needs of the people, except maybe your own personal needs.
    I wait the time where you'll prove that I have something personal to defend here.

    And once your personal needs change, the system will no longer suit you. Like I said, maybe this is just that you haven't been bitten in the ass yet or had to deal with this stuff firsthand, and you'll change your tune when you get run through the grinder and realize that there are other priorities.
    No, I will never change my opinion. My opinion is driven by logic and justice, not by private interests. Show me logical resaons which proves that bureaucracy and dirigism are more efficient, and I'll listen you. But you don't do that.
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  8. #88
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    If I was a transgender, I would assume the consequences of my choice without imposing it to the others, forcing a boss to pay me.
    You would not. Seriously, people say this because they aren't in that position and they never will be and they know it so they simply don't give a shit about putting themselves in that situation. It's pitiful and immature. You DON'T know how you would react as a transgender because you're not one. And that's the point of everything. You don't know, and you don't understand and you never will.. so stop acting like you have the scoop of it. Your beliefs are NOT the same as how you handle people.

    If I asked you if you were a drug addict and a hospital refused to give you care and you were dying, I'll bet you'd say the exact same lame ass thing I just quoted. And it's ridiculous. You Would Want to live. I don't think anyone would roll over and get all pitiful like a kicked puppy and say, "Well :c they said no.. so.. oh well.."

    People don't just roll over and let others tell them what to do. If you REALLY did believe this, than you wouldn't be debating this topic so hard. You'd probably say "Oh.. Well, they said it isn't like that, so I was definitely wrong."
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  9. #89
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Not sure where you are, but we do that all the time anyways. It's called Equal Opportunity employment.
    The use of an abirary bureaucracy to support your interest don't form equal opprtunity, but twist the natural game the natural game of employement. The bureaucracy have no place to judge if the transgender is truly competent or not, but will help any transgender who cry in their skirts using denouncement against a compagny boss who hire someone else, as much competent as him or even more; all a bureaucracy can do is to use thier arbitrary power to change the stats, not being just and objective.


    While I am not saying a government based health care system would be ideal for any country, it has flaws like everything else. But many countries are rich enough and well off enough that they should start taking care of their poor and needy more than they do.
    On a spontaneous way only.

    You would not. Seriously, people say this because they aren't in that position and they never will be and they know it so they simply don't give a shit about putting themselves in that situation. It's pitiful and immature. You DON'T know how you would react as a transgender because you're not one. And that's the point of everything. You don't know, and you don't understand and you never will.. so stop acting like you have the scoop of it. Your beliefs are NOT the same as how you handle people.

    If I asked you if you were a drug addict and a hospital refused to give you care and you were dying, I'll bet you'd say the exact same lame ass thing I just quoted. And it's ridiculous. You Would Want to live. I don't think anyone would roll over and get all pitiful like a kicked puppy and say, "Well :c they said no.. so.. oh well.."

    People don't just roll over and let others tell them what to do. If you REALLY did believe this, than you wouldn't be debating this topic so hard. You'd probably say "Oh.. Well, they said it isn't like that, so I was definitely wrong."
    Seriously, you know nothing about my interests, that don't change anything. What I say would still true. And I'm not debating that harder than others peoples on thes thread, who are liberals who want the victory of their ideology, that's one sure thing. For the rest, all you're doing here is speculation without any concrete purpose.

    I'dd add that I'm of a breton origin, and that bretons where a strongly dicriminated minority at first. We never need to be crybaby asking for the authority of a bureaucracy to prove our values and be integrated in the french society. And since I'm not homophobic or racist, I consider that gays, blacks, or whatver can succed were bretons succeed too.
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  10. #90
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The use of an abirary bureaucracy to support your interest don't form equal opprtunity, but twist the natural game twist the natural game of employement. The bureaucracy have no place to judge if the transgender is truly competent or not, but will help any transgender who cry in their skirts using denouncement against a compagny boss who hire someone else, as much competent as him or even more; all a bureaucracy can do use thier arbitrary power to change the stats, not being just and objective.
    You missed my point here. I am saying that what is NORMAL now was once being called the same things earlier. When black people, for example, wanted equal employment rights. Now a days, you don't think twice about having a black person employed, because their race and personal lives and cultures don't matter when it comes to work. Similarly.. transgenders asking for the same respect will eventually get it, because in the end if you get to pick-and-choose who you hire outside of how well they can do the actual job EVERYTHING will fall to pieces.. because then they'll go, "Why can't we discriminate against women for the same reasons?" "Why not blacks?" "Why not asians?" "Why not vegetarians?" Do you see how the grounds for one thing effects many things as well?

    Seriously, even if my private interests were differents, that would not change anything. What I say would still true. And I'm not debating that harder than others peoples on thes thread, who are liberals who want the victory of their ideology, that's one sure thing. For the rest, all you're doing here is speculation without any concrete purpose.
    So you'd give up your dream job with a simple shrug and a "oh well" just because someone doesn't agree with you on how you live your PERSONAL life away from your career and job? I'm going to call bullshit all over that one. It isn't FORCING a boss to pay you. It is forcing people to not put their personal opinions into the professional environment. Which is the way it should be.

    If someone only hired liberal people, but it was a job you needed and desired, would you not fight it? I'm sure you would. Anyone would. Who rolls over and allows something they NEED (Like WORK so they can, ya know, live. and eat. and stuff.) to be taken away from them based on personal opinions? It's ridiculous to even suggest you would roll over and give up that easily.
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