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  1. #71
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    If they need a doctor, let them pay it. Don't force someone else to pay for them.
    I don't see why people aren't allowed to get medical treatment without paying for it, especially if they don't have them money? I mean, it only makes sense to help out a fellow human being. We are a species, and we should at least respect the life of our fellow men and women to survive.

    Even if you don't think we should be "obliged" to get people medical treatment, didn't you say you believed in the right to life? And you would agree that, even if the person who needed treatment wasn't in dire circumstances, that his condition would be more prone to escalating to higher life-threatening levels?

    I don't get it. It's just helping someone get better. I don't see what the big deal is.
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  2. #72
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    I don't see why people aren't allowed to get medical treatment without paying for it, especially if they don't have them money? I mean, it only makes sense to help out a fellow human being. We are a species, and we should at least respect the life of our fellow men and women to survive.

    Even if you don't think we should be "obliged" to get people medical treatment, didn't you say you believed in the right to life? And you would agree that, even if the person who needed treatment wasn't in dire circumstances, that his condition would be more prone to escalating to higher life-threatening levels?

    I don't get it. It's just helping someone get better. I don't see what the big deal is.
    The rights of someone end where the rights of someone else start. Your right for life end where the right for freedom of someone else start. If you force him to help you, you violate his freedom. Same if you force him to hire you and pay you a salary, or pay you a doctor.

    People have the right to chose if they want to associate with someone or not. There's no difference between that and a forced marriage.

    And I said that nothing guranteed that the decision of bureaucrat would not be arbitrary and an abuse of power. To prove me wrong, socialists here should say "we can guarantee that the judgment of a bureaucrat will be accurate and objective, because...".

    But they can't do that, so they are wrong, and I'am right.

    That's it. You loose. End of the story.

    Have a nice day.
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  3. #73
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mujigay View Post
    socialism=evil.
    No, not evil. That's the tactic of my oponnents if you read well: "you are evil because you think differently than me".

    I never said that it was evil, but that it was unethical and inneficient, and I explained why.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  4. #74
    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The rights of someone end where the rights of someone else start. Your right for life end where the right for freedom of someone else start. If you force him to help you, you violate his freedom. Same if you force him to hire you and pay you a salary, or pay you a doctor.

    People have the right to chose if they want to associate with someone or not. There's no difference between that and a forced marriage.

    And I said that nothing guranteed that the decision of bureaucrat would not be arbitrary and an abuse of power. To prove me wrong, socialists here should say "we can guarantee that the judgment of a bureaucrat will be accurate and objective, because...".

    But they can't do that, so they are wrong, and I'am right.

    That's it. You loose. End of the story.

    Have a nice day.
    It's a community effort. You are not forcing one person to get involved with another. We all pitch in some in taxes. I don't see how paying, you know, an extra hundred dollars or so a month for public health care is that bad. It's not like anything you can do with that money is more important than helping injured/ill people or saving people.

    I don't understand your logic. For hundreds of thousands of years, humans and many other species have survived codependently, and now you want to make it "every man for himself"? That doesn't help with survival lol.
    MBTI: INFP
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    Fi > Ne > Ti > Fe > Se > Si > Te > Ni

    "Forgiveness means letting go of the past." ~ Gerald Jampolsky
    "I am justice!" ~ Light Yagami, Death Note
    "The choices people make tell you a lot about a person, but the reasons [...] tell you even more." ~ Albus Dumbledore (paraphrased)

    Tatiana ♥

  5. #75
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    It's a community effort.
    It's a bureaucracy power supported by a lobby.


    You are not forcing one person to get involved with another.
    You are, since you want to force a boss to hire a transgender.

    We all pitch in some in taxes. I don't see how paying, you know, an extra hundred dollars or so a month for public health care is that bad. It's not like anything you can do with that money is more important than helping injured/ill people or saving people.
    Because it's spoliation.

    I don't understand your logic. For hundreds of thousands of years, humans and many other species have survived codependently
    Yes, but it was spontaneous, not forced by the State. And it worked despite society was far more poor than it is today. While now the society is more rich, but the welfare state must face a growing and constant problem of indebtedness which leads to inflation, poverty and unemployement.

    Proof that the private sector is far more able to manage and allocate ressources for public health than the State who's just a mafia who spoliate peoples and is not responsible for anything.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #76
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    You are, since you want to force a boss to hire a transgender.*
    *Replace with "woman, man, young, old, white, black, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, any faith, any nationality, any social class."

    Except, even more importantly, no one is being "forced to hire a transgender." You are twisting this regulation. It's merely that people are not allowed to NOT hire and/or to FIRE someone JUST because they are transgendered (or any of the other things listed above). These are cases where the person in question was either doing the job well but was fired when they announced a decision to transition; or they were actually offered the position, then had it taken back when they informed the management they were transgender.

    Again, it's about merit. If you are the best candidate for the job, then you should be the one who is hired (or at least considered, if there are other equally competent candidates).

    If you want to bitch about a boss being forced to hire someone because they are the better person for the job, then go right ahead... and then hope that you are never in a position where you can't get hired despite being the best candidate for the job just because you happened to be a race, gender, or orientation that someone doesn't like. It's a real bitch when you're great at what you do but you end up living on the street because you just happen to be a minority.

    It's not just about some abstract decision, it's about people who have to support a family, people paying off college loans, etc., and other expenses, who end up not being able to get a job doing anything other than flipping burgers or running a cash register because they are a minority; and they can't pay off those tuition debts or their kids' expenses anymore.

    And I don't know why you're bitching about public resources, because you benefit from them on a daily basis. Even the Internet is paid for and maintained by others, and you can snag free connections in places. Products are subsidized. You drive on roads paid for by taxes. The list is endless. Let's face it, you're stuck intermeshed with others.

    Even with health insurance, when someone comes down with cancer (for example), they are taking money paid in by the people who are well because they have greater needs at the moment. A lot of this stuff is "pay in" so that if you ever need something you can't pay for, other people will foot the bill. If you feel like you don't want to pay for others and things that medical doctors validate as necessary but that you don't, then you don't have to opt in. That's where choice is enacted -- whether or not you opt into the program.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  7. #77
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ~Boring and pointless wall of text which doesn't make sense~
    I've ever explained why the market was more able than bureaucracy to judge who is competent or not. If you can't prove the contrary, you are wrong, end of the story.

    For the rest, I never said people were not codependent, but that codependency must be expressed in free and spontaneous cooperation and association, not in spoliation and coercion.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  8. #78
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I've ever explained why the market was more able than bureaucracy to judge who is competent or not. If you can't prove the contrary, you are wrong, end of the story.

    For the rest, I never said people were not codependent, but that codependency must be expressed in free and spontaneous cooperation and association, not in spoliation and coercion.
    At least you're consistent in your inability to analyze this scenario through multiple lenses or address any rational criticisms made about your viewpoint.

    If only other people could be as relentlessly themselves, without shame, as you are willing to present yourself on this forum, without fearing the stigma of having people think your rationale is completely void of substance. That take real balls.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #79
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    At least you're consistent in your inability to analyze this scenario through multiple lenses or address any rational criticisms made about your viewpoint.

    If only other people could be as relentlessly themselves, without shame, as you are willing to present yourself on this forum, without fearing the stigma of having people think your rationale is completely void of substance. That take real balls.
    If that was supposed to hide the fact that you don't have any arguments to oppose, it failed.

    Funny from someone who say my rationale is void of substance.

    Lol.
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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  10. #80
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    If that was supposed to hide the fact that you don't have any arguments to oppose, it failed.
    Funny from someone who say my rationale is void of substance.
    Lol.
    Lol... Like I said, you play your hand straight to the end no matter how empty it is. Bravo.

    I'd like to see your betting strategy in poker.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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