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  1. #1
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Oklahoma "personhood" bill fails in Legislature

    This came up in conversation in another thread a few weeks back. I didn't realize Missouri already had a law like this on the books.

    http://news.yahoo.com/oklahoma-perso...012913037.html

    OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - A proposed 'personhood' law in Oklahoma that would grant embryos full rights as people from the moment of conception failed in the state's Legislature without coming to a vote in the House of Representatives, lawmakers said on Thursday.

    The bill, which backers hoped would provide a path to roll back the constitutional right to an abortion, had sailed through the Oklahoma Senate in February by a 34-8 vote. Many thought the Republican-dominated House would rubber-stamp the bill.

    But Republican lawmaker Sally Kern said the measure failed before reaching the floor of the House....

    ...If an embryo has full legal rights, abortion would represent murder. The bill, which had been amended nearly two dozen times in committee, did not carve out exceptions for rape or incest.

    ...The bill did say that nothing in the law would bar the use of in-vitro fertilization or interfere with the disposal of unused embryos or their use in stem cell research. Nor would the bill have barred contraception measures such as the "morning-after" pill or treatment for ectopic pregnancies, in which the pregnancy occurs outside the womb.

    ...The initiatives were designed to provoke legal challenges from abortion-rights supporters, with the ultimate goal of giving the Supreme Court a vehicle to overturn its landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion, according to Keith Mason, a leader of the movement.

    Oklahoma's bill sought to go further than Missouri's in challenging Roe v. Wade by not including language acknowledging that it defers to the court and Constitution...
    it sounds like an enforcement nightmare. I was still kind of surprised Oklahoma backed away from it, though, considering the Senate had approved it and the House is controlled by Republicans.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    what's the clear distinction of human to animals anyways? I'm sure all the people for this thing eat meat.

    ( i know there is a clear distinction between humans and animals lol, im just saying if you like to gnaw on bones for supper, and are against abortion, you should re-assess what you think "life" is. and replace one beleif with the other, it's almost hypercritical)
    1+1=3 OMFG

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munchies View Post
    what's the clear distinction of human to animals anyways? I'm sure all the people for this thing eat meat.

    ( i know there is a clear distinction between humans and animals lol, im just saying if you like to gnaw on bones for supper, and are against abortion, you should re-assess what you think "life" is.)
    I think for a lot of pro-lifers with a religious foundation, even if they try to respect non-human life, they do see human life as higher in "god's plan" and modeled on god's image, versus animal life. But there's also species-centricism; we protect our own to the exclusion of others outside our group, including species.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    This came up in conversation in another thread a few weeks back. I didn't realize Missouri already had a law like this on the books.

    http://news.yahoo.com/oklahoma-perso...012913037.html
    it sounds like an enforcement nightmare. I was still kind of surprised Oklahoma backed away from it, though, considering the Senate had approved it and the House is controlled by Republicans.


    I think enforcement will be easy. Have an abortion, you've commited murder.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I think enforcement will be easy. Have an abortion, you've commited murder.
    I think the nightmare comes in that it would ban contraception within the body (as opposed to outside, like in vitro, etc.). How do you know someone is using contraception and just killed a potentially fertilized egg?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think the nightmare comes in that it would ban contraception within the body (as opposed to outside, like in vitro, etc.). How do you know someone is using contraception and just killed a potentially fertilized egg?
    But they do not entend to fully enforce this, since embryos from in-vitro clinics will still be flushed down a sink with impunity. It seems to be part of a larger conservative agenda that reinforces traditional gender roles and treats women as chattel whose bodies are not fully their own.
    But why the move to the right? How is this fundamentalism substantially different from Sharia? Is it a reaction to economic hardship? The oligarchs surely are not affected by thise forces to the extent that the middle class has been in the last few years. What is the primary motivation here?

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    But they do not entend to fully enforce this, since embryos from in-vitro clinics will still be flushed down a sink with impunity. It seems to be part of a larger conservative agenda that reinforces traditional gender roles and treats women as chattel whose bodies are not fully their own.
    But why the move to the right? How is this fundamentalism substantially different from Sharia? Is it a reaction to economic hardship? The oligarchs surely are not affected by thise forces to the extent that the middle class has been in the last few years. What is the primary motivation here?
    I can't be entirely sure, but I think with the swing in the state of the country towards moderation/relaxedness, the conservatives are pushing back fearing their standards and way of life will be lost. They don't get traction on same-sex marriage as much, but abortion actually is still pretty much frowned on even by the Gen Y's... i think in part because of better technology to detect and measure and view an embroyo earlier in the gestation process. IOW, now that we can get pictures of our baby at 10 weeks old (or whatever) and show them to our friends, we're even less prone to abort.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    If a law like this passed, would all miscarriages require an autopsy then? Could you imagine a woman who had a miscarriage being indicted for murder because of a botched autopsy?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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