User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 23

  1. #1
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default American national & foreign debt (split from Chinese origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Many people channel this sort of thinking into sports teams now days. I'm not sure how "concerned" I am that the Chinese believe this about themselves. I'm more concerned with the United States' stupidity for owing them so much money.
    Contrary to popular belief. The United States owes more money to its people than it does China.

    What it owes to China is hogwash compared to how much it owes its own people.

  2. #2
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    BIRD
    Enneagram
    631 sp
    Posts
    3,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Contrary to popular belief. The United States owes more money to its people than it does China.
    Dammit, I was going to say this.

  3. #3
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Contrary to popular belief. The United States owes more money to its people than it does China.
    Orly? You like freeways? Libraries? Traffic lights? The fire department?

    We aren't even that heavily taxed, and if the outrageously wealthy would pay just a tiny fraction more (that they wouldn't even feel, it would be like a middle class person taking a few bucks out of their pocket) we could have better healthcare and education.

    Of course, this isn't a political discussion about your libertarian beliefs, though. This is about the greater economic world where companies (not the government) have outsourced our American jobs to places like Asia. People are stupid to blame the government for everything, though I do admit that corporate welfare and military overspending is bothersome, it has rather given us a place of social dominance in the world. That's why people don't like us. But it's also why we manage to be relatively unscathed, because in a primitive sense we flex our muscles.

    Note that countries which are world super powers are often deeply despised by the rest of the world. There are varying opinions on whether this is good or bad, but this isn't the thread for this sort of talk.

    The U.S. owes China trillions of dollars. That's trillions, with a T. We also can't pay off debts without paying taxes and re-structuring the budget.

    My dream is to move to a European country, but it would be wisest probably to marry someone of that particular nationality, specifically, given all of the nationalism in Europe.

    At this juncture I've become more concerned about my individual welfare than the political wars that are going on in this absurd country.

  4. #4
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Orly? You like freeways? Libraries? Traffic lights? The fire department?
    We aren't even that heavily taxed, and if the outrageously wealthy would pay just a tiny fraction more (that they wouldn't even feel, it would be like a middle class person taking a few bucks out of their pocket) we could have better healthcare and education.

    Of course, this isn't a political discussion about your libertarian beliefs, though. This is about the greater economic world where companies (not the government) have outsourced our American jobs to places like Asia. People are stupid to blame the government for everything, though I do admit that corporate welfare and military overspending is bothersome, it has rather given us a place of social dominance in the world. That's why people don't like us. But it's also why we manage to be relatively unscathed, because in a primitive sense we flex our muscles.

    Note that countries which are world super powers are often deeply despised by the rest of the world. There are varying opinions on whether this is good or bad, but this isn't the thread for this sort of talk.

    The U.S. owes China trillions of dollars. That's trillions, with a T. We also can't pay off debts without paying taxes and re-structuring the budget.

    My dream is to move to a European country, but it would be wisest probably to marry someone of that particular nationality, specifically, given all of the nationalism in Europe.

    At this juncture I've become more concerned about my individual welfare than the political wars that are going on in this absurd country.
    well, most of it seems to be spent on "national defense" and a plethora of bureaucratic government jobs (mostly "glorified paper pushers). my question is, if we're not paying for much, where is all this debt coming from? what exactly is the government spending all our money on? those who seek to raise taxes should first seek to make more efficient what already is being payed for. after all, doesn't it make sense to reduce spending when you're paying $10 for a $5 service than demand more money to fund this service? I am against higher taxes, but I think even those for it should be just as concerned (if not more so) with how efficiently that money is being spent.

    PS: this is an interesting topic. there are many Chinese scientist who believe the Chinese (and by extension, other Asian peoples to an extenet) descend from an Asian subspecies of homo erectus. personally, I don't think they are, although it would be VERY interesting if further (unbiased, third party) studies confirmed or supported this claim.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #5
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    well, most of it seems to be spent on "national defense" and a plethora of bureaucratic government jobs (mostly "glorified paper pushers). my question is, if we're not paying for much, where is all this debt coming from? what exactly is the government spending all our money on? those who seek to raise taxes should first seek to make more efficient what already is being payed for. after all, doesn't it make sense to reduce spending when you're paying $10 for a $5 service than demand more money to fund this service? I am against higher taxes, but I think even those for it should be just as concerned (if not more so) with how efficiently that money is being spent.

    PS: this is an interesting topic. there are many Chinese scientist who believe the Chinese (and by extension, other Asian peoples to an extenet) descend from an Asian subspecies of homo erectus. personally, I don't think they are, although it would be VERY interesting if further (unbiased, third party) studies confirmed or supported this claim.
    Of course I'm concerned with how efficiently the money is being spent. I mean, people complain about entitlement programs that support things like basic nutrition and health...but those things actually take up a sliver of the national budget. Furthermore, increasing education and reducing poverty is something that benefits an entire society, not just the individuals living below the poverty level.

    The spending does go to things like military overspending, and I'm not really terribly thrilled with the expensive vacations the Obamas have been taking. Do you know that when John F. Kennedy was in the White House he wouldn't even accept his salary, because he already came from a wealthy family?

    I'm not saying that our president shouldn't have a salary, but putting things in perspective, we've got people at the top tiers of both government and business who are making out like bandits, while millions of Americans - including middle-class, educated Americans - are unemployed, or underemployed. Also many working people can't even get health insurance. It's a bunch of fucking crap.

    This country isn't even truly capitalist, it's been taken over by major corporations and propaganda increasingly since the 1980's.

  6. #6
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Of course I'm concerned with how efficiently the money is being spent. I mean, people complain about entitlement programs that support things like basic nutrition and health...but those things actually take up a sliver of the national budget. Furthermore, increasing education and reducing poverty is something that benefits an entire society, not just the individuals living below the poverty level.
    this is why I have an issue with higher taxes. we need to fix this issue BEFORE getting higher taxes, not after. otherwise, it's like scolding a child for spending to much and then turning around and saying "but here's more money!"
    I have many friends who have worked for the government and the incentive to waste money is tremendous. we need to make departments more accountable and crack down on wasteful spending. I will consider the possibility of raising taxes after we have a more efficient system in place. problem is, I don't see it happening. if people don't have incentive to spend wisely, they will not spend wisely.

    The spending does go to things like military overspending, and I'm not really terribly thrilled with the expensive vacations the Obamas have been taking. Do you know that when John F. Kennedy was in the White House he wouldn't even accept his salary, because he already came from a wealthy family?
    agreed

    I'm not saying that our president shouldn't have a salary, but putting things in perspective, we've got people at the top tiers of both government and business who are making out like bandits, while millions of Americans - including middle-class, educated Americans - are unemployed, or underemployed. Also many working people can't even get health insurance. It's a bunch of fucking crap.
    well, with the government now making health insurance obligatory, that isn't going to change anytime soon, as we're going to see prices soaring, just like they have with college loans. corporations aside, private businessmen who make off with millions do so because they've earned it, they have provided more value to society than 20 lower income citizens. they are the ones who create jobs and drive productivity. productivity is the most important thing to have going well in a country, and frankly, most liberals fail to understand this.

    This country isn't even truly capitalist, it's been taken over by major corporations and propaganda increasingly since the 1980's.
    you're preaching to the choir hun
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  7. #7
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Orly? You like freeways? Libraries? Traffic lights? The fire department?
    Think of it this way. While politics is blaming China for their "De Facto woes," they won't choose to look at their own problems that they've created on their own damn soil. China is a SCAPEGOAT just as India is the next scapegoat.

    You want to talk about Freeways and traffic lights? America has one of the worst kept freeways ever since the passing to create the Interstate Highways, the freeways have gotten worse and worse, education has gotten worse and worse on a year to year basis. And here we are, to blame another country for our own woes that we've(they) created? Many, if not, all states have decided to cut their spending on education, why? Education is one of the gateways to making America rich again, so why are they cutting education? Why is the education system so worth of **** compared to other countries?

    You want to talk about firefighters? Some states have cut more firefighters and police than California has in the entire state all in the notion of saving money, and that has led to their own fire problems. These states decidedly choose to ask the government for assistance for their own problems they could of avoided.

    While we are at it, California also has one of the biggest overcrowding of prisoners in the nation. All of these prisoners make more than I do, at 50k+ a year with care. I could decidedly get myself in a county jail and get fed and taken care of on a yearly basis of doing nothing but sitting in a damn jail cell and I'd make more than trying to get a degree.

  8. #8
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Think of it this way. While politics is blaming China for their "De Facto woes," they won't choose to look at their own problems that they've created on their own damn soil. China is a SCAPEGOAT just as India is the next scapegoat.

    You want to talk about Freeways and traffic lights? America has one of the worst kept freeways ever since the passing to create the Interstate Highways, the freeways have gotten worse and worse, education has gotten worse and worse on a year to year basis. And here we are, to blame another country for our own woes that we've(they) created? Many, if not, all states have decided to cut their spending on education, why? Education is one of the gateways to making America rich again, so why are they cutting education? Why is the education system so worth of **** compared to other countries?
    Well people don't want entitlement programs, because they're goddamned retarded, and they'd like us to return to the Dark Ages, or perhaps just a kind of fiefdom arrangement.

    People don't want to pay taxes. They want the government to provide better roads, better schools, et al...but they don't want to pay taxes. People in this country, in my opinion, have a warped perception of reality. Too much importance is placed on things like distraction, entertainment, and junk food...and not enough on things that are actually necessary. This is reflected in the how salaries are very high for relatively unnecessary people who do very little to contribute to society. Then those people don't want to pay any taxes, because essentially they have the mind of thieves. They want to capitalize on the society without giving anything back.

    A lot of laws in this country are shitty, too. Our prisons are overcrowded because of some of our laws.

  9. #9
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    this is why I have an issue with higher taxes. we need to fix this issue BEFORE getting higher taxes, not after. otherwise, it's like scolding a child for spending to much and then turning around and saying "but here's more money!"
    I have many friends who have worked for the government and the incentive to waste money is tremendous. we need to make departments more accountable and crack down on wasteful spending. I will consider the possibility of raising taxes after we have a more efficient system in place. problem is, I don't see it happening. if people don't have incentive to spend wisely, they will not spend wisely.


    agreed


    well, with the government now making health insurance obligatory, that isn't going to change anytime soon, as we're going to see prices soaring, just like they have with college loans. corporations aside, private businessmen who make off with millions do so because they've earned it, they have provided more value to society than 20 lower income citizens. they are the ones who create jobs and drive productivity. productivity is the most important thing to have going well in a country, and frankly, most liberals fail to understand this.


    you're preaching to the choir hun
    I agree with you on everything except that businessman always have earned what they are paid. Sometimes they do little to nothing all day, and there is nepotism in this country, and there are people who work very hard and are not compensated for it.

    I think it is just as naive and idealistic to say that all businessmen earn their outrageously high salaries, just as it's naive and idealistic to say everyone should be paid about the same amount of money.

    I disagree with both mindsets, I think communism and anarcho-capitalism are both idealistic and silly, and ignore basic facts about human nature.

  10. #10
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I agree with you on everything except that businessman always have earned what they are paid. Sometimes they do little to nothing all day, and there is nepotism in this country, and there are people who work very hard and are not compensated for it.
    the businessman gets more results, so he gets more money; the hard labor worker gets less results, so he gets payed less. hard work is correlated with income, but it would be silly to think the two should be directly correlated. this is why most people would fail miserably at either a sales job or starting a business. if forces you to think smart and be results oriented. a results oriented society is a prosperous society

    I think it is just as naive and idealistic to say that all businessmen earn their outrageously high salaries, just as it's naive and idealistic to say everyone should be paid about the same amount of money.
    why? if they resorted to extortion or coercion, than yes, they should be punished for it, but other than that, if they don't have to work as hard to get massive results, more power to them.

    I disagree with both mindsets, I think communism and anarcho-capitalism are both idealistic and silly, and ignore basic facts about human nature.
    well, at least you aren't a communist
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

Similar Threads

  1. What is truth (split from post poll)
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 01-27-2013, 09:47 AM
  2. Racism (split from "I'm voting Republican" thread.)
    By wildcat in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 191
    Last Post: 08-03-2008, 11:40 AM
  3. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 07-24-2008, 12:53 AM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-20-2008, 05:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO