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  1. #61
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    That wasn't really my point. They still wouldn't think of it as "Freedom to control others" (how is that noble in anyone's mind?), they would think of it as something different. When people say someone is seeking "freedom to control others," probably all that can be said is that they can't see something from the other person's point of view.
    Using language different from what is used to justify a behavior does demonstrate thought processes that are different, but it can also unmask and reveal truth about what is really happening on a deeper level in the minds of others. It is possible for people to enjoy and feel safe in feeling superior to others to a degree that they feel justified to control them. I can imagine that mindset, used to live surrounded by it and so learned a great deal of nuance about it, still not agree with it in the end, and so find a new way to frame it in language that reveals more truth than the controlling person could ever admit to their own self. Let me demonstrate self-justification for "freedom to control others".

    "As a Christian pharmacist I have beliefs that are at the core of my being. These beliefs are based on a Higher Power, a greater wisdom than that of feeble human beings. Each time I am required to dispense medications that encourage other to commit immoral acts, I share their guilt, and I participate in them hurting themselves. God has taught us these things to protect us, and if that light has been brought to our eyes, we are responsible for it. Because of this I cannot fill prescriptions that go against my beliefs. It is a violation of myself, harms myself and the customers who naively seek this harm."

    "It is my moral responsibility to vote against gay marriage. God has given us a model for how to build a stable, moral family unit. The health of a whole society is based on this family unit. When we deny this wisdom, allow unnatural sexual pairings and call these a sacred marriage, we harm every one in society including those who participate in this unnatural love. It is our responsibility as moral citizens to protect these people from themselves and to protect our cherished, stable, moral traditions."

    My personal position is opposite of these preceding paragraphs, but i am familiar with the justifying lingo. Tired of it,but know it inside and out. So the assumption you put forth that using different language proves a lack of comprehension about a different point of view can at times be correct, but I suggest that it is by no means certainly true in all cases.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #62
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Using language different from what is used to justify a behavior does demonstrate thought processes that are different, but it can also unmask and reveal truth about what is really happening on a deeper level in the minds of others. It is possible for people to enjoy and feel safe in feeling superior to others to a degree that they feel justified to control them. I can imagine that mindset, used to live surrounded by it and so learned a great deal of nuance about it, still not agree with it in the end, and so find a new way to frame it in language that reveals more truth than the controlling person could ever admit to their own self. Let me demonstrate self-justification for "freedom to control others".

    ......................

    My personal position is opposite of these preceding paragraphs, but i am familiar with the justifying lingo. Tired of it,but know it inside and out. So the assumption you put forth that using different language proves a lack of comprehension about a different point of view can at times be correct, but I suggest that it is by no means certainly true in all cases.
    True, but I wouldn't say self-justification counts, because it changes the reasoning being actively used in the "struggle to define what freedom is."

    I thought you were trying to portray for us "A struggle between people who think 'freedom' is the freedom to control other people, and those who think 'freedom' is about your own choices in your own life." The style and idea seem to be like a reporter's, telling us about a situation (the struggle between the two idea-camps) without bias so far as that's possible. If that wasn't your intention to begin with, then I get it, but it doesn't really seem that way.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #63
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    How far does state regulation of private establishments go in Texas? To me this is just irrational, have this school ever heard of employee rights? Throwing someone out for having a child out of wedlock based on following some religious principles as protocol is stupid.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  4. #64
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Why didn't she just get married when she found out?

    My daughter has a (public) school teacher who is pregnant and not married and tells the kids that she can't "afford" to get married. My daughter (14 years old) said to me, "didn't your friend get married in shorts at the court house? How could my teacher not afford it?"

    I didn't really have a good answer other than that the teacher made the choice not to get married and it's not a big deal like it used to be. That it's good for a kid to have two involved parents and I think it's better for a kid to have two parents who are (happily) married.

    Her teacher made the choice to stay single as did this teacher who was teaching at a baptist private school.

    I don't know the legality issues, just that she could have done a quick wedding and avoided this whole silliness. And I think for the teacher to act confused about the whole situation is a bit strange.
    Last edited by Laurie; 04-20-2012 at 06:09 AM.

  5. #65
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    My personal position is opposite of these preceding paragraphs, but i am familiar with the justifying lingo. Tired of it,but know it inside and out. So the assumption you put forth that using different language proves a lack of comprehension about a different point of view can at times be correct, but I suggest that it is by no means certainly true in all cases.
    The use of different language certainly reflects different perspective and even values. I can understand another person's perspective and values without accepting them, though, as they might understand but reject mine. In a society where people of diverse opinions must live peaceably together, however, we must strike some balance that prevents individual expression from crossing the line into compulsion of others. The line tends to be drawn using objectively measurable criteria, where it is easier to get broader agreement.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #66

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    I do not understand you Catholic church.

    Teacher Fired After Receiving Fertility Treatments

    They need PR agents stat. And commmon sense.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  7. #67
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I haven't taught since 1984, but there was a morals clause in my contract, in a Virginia public school. I seriously doubt such things have been completely taken out. The only thing I'm surprised at is that she was surprised to be let go.

    Teaching is more than conveying subject matter. Part of the job of being a teacher is conforming to behavior that qualifies you as a role model.

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