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  1. #51
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Like letting the government take away religious education, home-schooling, and whatever else in this country is really even a viable possibility.... Never gonna happen. Especially not with how crappy some of the public schools are.
    yes my mom's friend teaches remedial math at a local public school, and the super intendent told her to pass the children that were failing or she'd lose her job.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #52
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    yes my mom's friend teaches remedial math at a local public school, and the super intendent told her to pass the children that were failing or she'd lose her job.
    There are a lot of factors involved in education and pressures from all sides (parents, government, economics, local culture, etc.), so the school ends up navigating them in whatever way seems plausible.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Clearly she should have had an abortion so she could keep her job.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There are a lot of factors involved in education and pressures from all sides (parents, government, economics, local culture, etc.), so the school ends up navigating them in whatever way seems plausible.
    yeah, but my point is there is no such thing as the perfect education system all of them are going to have some problems. the trick is minimize those problems and give the children best chance at a future as possible but thats JMO
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #55

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    I understand she broke the rules of the system she entered, but it's perfectly okay to question the system and proceed to buck the hell out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I don't know exactly what the Policies of the school are or how they treated this woman during the meetings. But, when churches don't make room for forgiveness and understanding in these situations they hurt the pro-life movement.
    Ftr, I know two excellent elders in two very evangelical churches who prior to being elders got their wives pregnant while engaged. So I don't think unwed parenthood mars someone's character to the point that they are unfit for leadership.
    I know plenty of homegrown southern Evangelicals that would agree with you. Even within the tenants of Christianity, there is room for argument with their decision.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  6. #56
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Your depiction of the struggle sounds biased. (and probably Jennifer's, too, just so you don't feel that I'm singling you out)
    Can you be more specific? There is one part of the argument earlier on to which I admitted some bias, but the above statement is somewhat abstract and generic, so I am wondering what you are reading as bias. Applied to an unreasonable extreme the statement I made would show bias, but applied in a reasonable way it would be simply logical. Can you state the bias you are reading? I think it requires an assumption regarding the application of the principle which migh be referring back to a statement I made about pharmacists, but I'd be curious what you are actually meaning here.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #57
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Just how many laws are we willing to allow people and organizations to break by claiming religious exemptions? If standards of personal behavior were not a contractual requirement, the school should be treated the same as any other school. The teacher might no longer feel comfortable working there, as others have observed, but should receive some settlement.

    If this teacher's contract specified requirements for personal behavior as a condition of remaining employed, then it is a contractual matter and she has little recourse. That being said, people are often presented with contracts whose provisions conflict with personal values, but govern things that are hard practical necessities of life, so they have little choice but to sign. The equivalent in this case would be if this were the only job the teacher could find. This doesn't change her expectations, just explains why people sometimes accept contractual terms with which they fundamentally disagree. In any case, if she was an honest follower of the church, hopefully she is being a little more questioning of its attitudes now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think it's a case, not of your church community forgiving you for sex out of marriage, but the example you're giving for children.
    The school would do better to set the example of forgiveness for the students. No one follows church (or other) rules 100%. How is one to deal with others, or oneself, when they don't measure up? Throw the book at them and make it difficult for them to fulfill their other obligations? Or approach them with kindness and guidance to set them back on the straight and narrow? The idea of setting an example cuts both ways. Of course, the school and sponsoring church are being honest here is showing their true colors. That kind of example may very well teach some students to look elsewhere.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #58
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    No harm meant, but:
    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    The core of the conflict is the definition of freedom. For some freedom means being able to impose personal beliefs or economic controls onto other people...
    Do we really think anyone would consider this "freedom?" They would be thinking of it in a different light, I'd imagine. It seems to me more like a conflict about how important freedom is (in other words, when can it be restricted), rather than what it is.

    But then again, in some circumstances, calls of "freedom" from some political groups can mean more freedom to make and administer their own laws (such as States' Rights arguments), and that can lead directly to controlling moral actions or economics, as that's usually what laws are for.

    I don't think the "freedom to make others do likewise" is ever thought of as a concept that makes sense, except in a few convoluted situations/justifications/ideologies.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I don't think the "freedom to make others do likewise" is ever thought of as a concept that makes sense, except in a few convoluted situations/justifications/ideologies.
    Have you not heard of the religious right? They are far from a small number.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  10. #60
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Have you not heard of the religious right? They are far from a small number.
    That wasn't really my point. They still wouldn't think of it as "Freedom to control others" (how is that noble in anyone's mind?), they would think of it as something different. When people say someone is seeking "freedom to control others," probably all that can be said is that they can't see something from the other person's point of view.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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